N12 7.1.4 Surround Channel Order is STILL wrong

Nuendo
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147

I’ll try to conclude here on the subject of the method affecting channels within the 7.1.4. framework.

  1. Nuendo, via its internal Renderer, is reliable for producing a Dolby Atmos ADM according to the standards (if, like me, you use the SoundID Reference as an insert in the Control room, remember to deactivate it to produce the ADM, and of course use the ADM creator export).

  2. For monitoring, at mix level, you don’t need to change anything in Nuendo, but you do need to invert the rears and sides in your interface, either physically or in software (which has no impact on rendering, of course). For my part, I have a UAD Apollo x16 and I invert the rear and sides in the software console matrix.

  3. If I input the ADM into the Dolby Atmos Renderer for listening, I invert the outputs of the Dolby Atmos Renderer (or remove the inversion from the UAD).

  4. If I enter the Dolby Atmos Renderer to make a re-renderer or MP4, or master with the Dolby Album, I don’t invert anything and leave the internal configuration as it is.

This is the method I’m currently using.

148

Thank you for this info Mute. I just got Sound ID reference and noticed I had to swap the rears & side channels for the display to correctly match how I wired my speakers. Is this was you did as well?

Also, it it necessary to disable SoundID in the control room insert? I thought this is was the control room was for: inserting plugins for monitoring only, therefore they do not print upon export.

149

I’m not sure about everything, but the principle I’m adopting after testing is not to touch Nuendo. So I don’t touch Sound ID, except to remove it (without fail) before exporting the ADM. Maybe what you’re doing is okay, because the Control Room (and its inserts) only affects monitoring. But I prefer my method, just to be on the safe side. That said, there are plenty of options, as long as logic is respected.

Let’s hope that Nuendo will one day help its users to do this simply, with explanations to match.

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I do have the same setup as you but I don’t need to change anything once I have everything setup. You should not need to remove anything from the inserts in Control Room when rendering. I also have the external Dolby Renderer which I can use for playback of ADM’s but once it’s setup I never need to change it.

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If you export via the ADM function (not the bounce, but the ADM creator) and you leave the SounID Reference, it will be in the chain, whereas it is only used for monitoring according to your listening room. That’s my understanding, but I can’t remember where I got that advice. In your opinion, it would be useless and Nuendo would ignore it anyway? It could be.

As for Dolby’s External Renderer, I think you’re right. If the interface channels are reversed, it doesn’t know it and will do its re-renders correctly anyway.

Thanks for the clarification. Hope to help some users.

152

If your room correction plugin is in the Control Room path and your Renderer plugin is on the output bus then how would CR affect your render?

And if they are in the same path - why are they in the same path?

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153

Indeed Matthias, so they’re not on the same path, so there’s no need to disable it. You’re right and I thank you.

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154

IRCAM Verb maps the channels wrong too.
Their support just answered and confirmed it.
“We’ll try to fix this in a next update”.
Great!

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155

In the meantime you can put the mixer delay plugin below it and correct the routing until they fix it. I had to do this with the Penteo plugin.

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156

When will this be fixed? :confused: It’s sooo frustrating. You can keep your Microsoft layout but please leave us a way to choose.

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157

Agreed. It gets really frustrating when rendering 7.1 stems and Ls/Rs and Lss/Rss are swapped in the resultant wav file to clients.

Putting Steinberg Mixer Delay plugin on the output channel is problematic since you can’t monitor with it on, but you have to remember to enable it for export.

Importing into any other programs requires you to do an order swap, if by chance that program can do it. If not then you have to split to mono, re-order and remux if possible.

If you send a client the unaltered 7.1 exports the channels will be swapped and you’re stuck with them wrong on the end product. Since every other player, DAW or video editor in the world assumes SMPTE/EBU standard.

Steinberg please fix this!

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158

If you’re using Control Room you can keep the Mixer Delay plugin on the master and use the same plugin on the inserts in the monitor section to swap the channels. That way you never have to remember anything.

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159

Get out of my head!

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160

If you’re using Control Room you can keep the Mixer Delay plugin on the master and use the same plugin on the inserts in the monitor section to swap the channels.

Good idea, but this is a kludge solution. Nuendo really needs to be updated for modern immersive standards.

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Until Steinberg gets back on track, I simply reverse the channels on the monitor. As a result, all deliveries to clients or for mastering comply with Dolby standards.

Note to Steinberg (I’ve already mentioned this, I can’t remember where - oh yes, I remember, it was right here!): if you adopt a system such as Dolby Atmos in one of your modules (and we thank you for that), you can’t exclude a piece of it. You have to be able to comply with this system. Otherwise, it’s like building a staircase and forgetting one of the central steps. You can get used to it, but you’ll get negative comments until it’s finally corrected. Why not do it right away? Channel inversion shouldn’t be that difficult to program.

1 Like