Need advice on creating submixes in cubase

Long time Aux bus user- trying to get into creating submixes so every section of my mix can be controlled via individual faders- (I try to bring as much “old school” mentality into my mixes, and I would love to get an analog summing mixer)
Anyways, working with drums , I have some confusion with how to create a proper submix in this way.
One because if it’s pre fader then I still have all the original audio duplicated.
Which is totally fine for a compressor but not if I want to add a reverb.
Would the proper way to do this be to add an fx track and route that fx track into the group track? Do I ROUTE my individual audio tracks to the group track? Or send it post fader?

Maybe I’m answering my question here but it seems maybe I’ve got my Drum group, I’ve got my fx group, and the original audio is obviously on the stereo out so all of those faders now come into play in my final “submix”???

Idk i just feel like this mixing concept should get me to a point where my levels relationship between instruments is “done” and ALL my audio is going into subgroups- I.e , drums, vocals, guitars, bass & kick.
And I don’t feel like the way I’m suggesting really gives you the ability to grab the submix faders at the end and do a final tweak of the levels, which is what I assumed was possible.

Maybe I could add a vca fader and link it to the group fader (along with linking any fxchannel )per submix with my tracks set to pre fader?

What is the proper way to achieve submixes and have complete control over all the levels of that group - and not destroy the relationship between any inserts?
Specifically with drums assuming I have a compressor on the group and an fx track with 100%wet reverb.

(Switching over from pro tools forgive my terminology , just upgraded from Elements to Pro, working on Mac)

I recently built a Template from scratch for C11, instead of revising and updating what I had been using. A big reason for this was to force myself to reexamine & re-imagine how to set things up. A big part of that was coming up with standardized buss structure. So here’s some thoughts & comments.

What you finally end up with will be unique for your particular workflow, music styles and general preferences. I spent several months using my old template and kept notes when I ran into something I wanted to change. It’s an easy step to skip, but pretty useful to find work patterns you might not be aware of.

Work the structure out backwards from Stereo Out. The general structure is going to be:

  • Tracks feeding Groups
  • Groups feeding other Groups (repeat as needed)
  • Groups feeding Stereo Out

If you think about it, this is a hierarchical structure just like the folders on your computer with the top ‘folder’ being Stereo Out. If you wanted to build a set of folders you wouldn’t start at the bottom of the tree, you’d start at the top & work down because that lets you create a logical structure. Same here.

For me the final Groups I have feeding Stereo Out are: Music, Vocals, Ambience and FX. That’s the initial setup but it can be easily be expanded and modified.

I use Direct Routing (Pro Only) because it makes it easier to both visualize and change the routing. DR isn’t needed to do any of this, but for me it simplifies daily use. But it does take longer and even more thinking to implement.

This screenshot shows all Group Channels in my main Template. Normally many of these are set Hidden until needed. It’s marked up to show the signal flow for Guitars. It starts with 2 Group Channels one for Rhythm and the other for Lead Guitar. These in turn feed a general Guitar submix, which goes to a Rhythm Section submix that goes to Music which finally goes to Stereo Out. Notice how using DR makes this easy to see. Plus I can quickly change the routing by selecting a different destination, for example the Lead Guitar to the Solo submix. or even directly to Stereo Out.

Also notice that there are 4 extra generic submixes that can be renamed (or not) and used as needed.

Also below is the Direct Routing for just regular Audio Guitar Tracks showing all of their default routing destinations. Keep in mind any of those Direct Routing slots can be changed if needed.

You describe wanting to apply reverb to a group of sounds. For example in the Guitar submix I could use a Send to a Reverb FX Channel. Pre-Fader the reverb level will remain constant even as the source’s level changes. Post-Fader the reverb & source levels will track. Alternatively putting a reverb on an Insert on the Guitar submix and adjusting its Mix setting (if it has one) will also keep the source and reverb relationship the same. So there are often multiple ways to get somewhere.