New licensing model and it's risks

My issue with the new licensing system is the risk, that if Steinberg changes its policy, for example, I may not be able to return to my Cubase projects in 10 years as I will not be able to renew the program’s operation.

It’s entirely possible:

  1. for Steinberg to cease to exist - it happened to Lehman Brothers, PANAM, Toys R Us, to name a few “too big to fail” companies, so it’s not unthinkable, Yamaha isn’t safe from this risk either;
  2. for Steinberg to be sold to a new owner who abandons Cubase support altogether - as it happened with Air Music Technology and their software;
  3. that the license database on Steinberg’s servers will be lost - Kjaerhus Audio?;
  4. Steinberg will commit planned obsolescence and abandon the ability to renew old versions of Cubase - the Native Instruments case.

The risk in the above cases does not exist with USB e-Licenser.

If Steinberg guarantees the permanent operation of older versions of the program (without having them call home) in the cases described above, then I am ready to accept the new system.

What is Steinberg’s position on the above scenarios?

Edit: as the topic got closed before I had a chance to respond, I’m editing my initial post.

@dspreadbury “However, Steinberg is a stable, well-run business that has been around for 37 years and counting, and it is owned by a larger, stable and well-run business that has been around for 134 years. The best indicator of what tomorrow will look like is what today looks like. There is no reason to believe that any of the doomsday scenarios you outline in your post are going to transpire, and nothing I can say that would provide you any reassurance about it.”

Planned obsolescence isn’t “a doomsday scenario” but a real threat, as proven by Native Instruments - a respected company, which one day decided it wouldn’t allow its paying customers to reactive legacy software for which they held licenses, and no alternative was given.

It is unreasonable to compare the risk of losing the dongle, which I am able to mitigate, and the risk associated with changes at Steinberg that are beyond my control, that depend on people beyond my control, including changes of management and employees, who may have a very different view of the situation than Steinberg has today.

Btw - many of us here have and use instruments that are even 4 or more decades old and work. I see no reason why my dongle would not work in four decades. In any of the cases described above, with the new licensing scheme, my diligence is not enough to ensure that my projects created in Cubase will continue to work.

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I see also a big technical risk in that they will have problem do maintain the activation software for old systems and will likely need to drop support.
And a guarantee from Steinberg is worth nothing. It need to be a proper escrow to be more than hot air.

Yes, I agree. Guarantees should be legally enforceable. The license should contain appropriate provisions, for example.

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It is hard to legally enforce something to something no longer exist. A escrow solves this problem.

You are right, however it addresses the planned obsolescence issue at least.

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As they say , to me it’s a case of " A bird in the hand in worth two in the bush " and the dongle is in the hand :raised_back_of_hand:t4: :raised_hand_with_fingers_splayed:t4: :palms_up_together:t4:

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I don’t think the situation is really any different regardless of what manner of licensing technology is in place.

If you are relying on the eLicenser, it only works as long as the eLicenser software on your computer still works. It only works as long as the physical eLicenser itself also continues to work. If an operating system update renders the eLicenser software inoperable, or your eLicenser breaks, then you would lose access to the software – you would not be able to transfer your license to another USB-eLicenser, because that transfer process relies on a transaction with the eLicenser server, which in this hypothetical situation no longer exists.

The risks are more or less the same for an online activation situation, except that the communication with the online server is more frequent, so you run into problems sooner.

We cannot provide any kinds of realistic guarantees about the future, since none of us can predict it. (If you can predict the future reliably, please tell me when Spurs are next going to win something, and whether it will be in my lifetime.)

However, Steinberg is a stable, well-run business that has been around for 37 years and counting, and it is owned by a larger, stable and well-run business that has been around for 134 years. The best indicator of what tomorrow will look like is what today looks like. There is no reason to believe that any of the doomsday scenarios you outline in your post are going to transpire, and nothing I can say that would provide you any reassurance about it.

Don’t think people are worried with tomorrow but rather with the day after tomorrow.

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I’m not under any illusion that I can provide you with any reassurance. But I’m happy enough with Steinberg’s prospects that I’m willing to both pour all of my energies into it, and indeed to stake my family’s livelihood on it (and have done for a decade), if that counts for anything.

If all we’re going to get in this thread is more doomsday fretting, I’ll close it. There’s nothing new that can be added in that direction.

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i was super bummed about steinberg dropping e-licenser, but have found some solace in the fact that they are allowing users to keep their cubase 11 license on the dongle after upgrading to cubase 12.

i definitely see where you are coming from. i always felt like the hate the dongle got was unwarranted and was often coming from folks who either:

  1. disliked the effectiveness of the dongle at preventing piracy (and helping the software retain it’s value - in a similar way to physical gear). these types just wanted to be able to pirate cubase.

  2. use a laptop and have limited space / usb ports. but this could easily be solved without disregarding those of us who benefit greatly from the dongle.

  3. were fanboys of a competing daw software, and were just flaming software they had never used.

i am so invested in steinberg products - i use nuendo and wavelab everyday for work, and have kept dorico and cubase up-to-date as well. i don’t mind upgrading every year, and many say that this is already essentially a subscription model, but that’s just not true. right now, i can purchase a cubase 11 license and, after downloading the license from the servers to the dongle, could theoretically never again move the dongle out of a usb port on an always-offline computer. the new system really does seem like a step towards subscription.

i was similarly peeved with the subscription model used for dorico for ipad, but my concerns were pretty much gas-lit ("the subscription is cheap - the cost of a cup of coffee…"etc). the point always has been that many of us are more than willing to pay a little more for the “convenience” of actually owning the tools we rely on.

i would love to see steinberg allow for those of us who prefer the dongle to keep using it (without having to renew the license online every 30 days [or even yearly]). they could move cubase to the new system but have nuendo and wavelab stay with a dongle system / a system that would allow permanent offline use.

the dongle protected steinberg, and was great for a lot of users. i am sorry to see them abandon it.

I don’t need any reassurance.
I got my answers in the other threads and I’m hoping (and trusting) you’re trying to do the right thing.
The reply was mostly teasing.
I don’t think the thing you said regarding tomorrow was true at any time in history, even more when we’re talking tech.

So the machnies today without following your NEW style of licencing are the Atari’s of the day but the only difference is instead of one defunked bit of software we have Cubase <Spectral layers , Wavelab ,Halion 6 , Back bone, Nuendo and ALL sound contents and instruments and unless we update or dongle breaks that’s thousands of pounds wasted , am i correct ?

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I’m going to close this thread now, to avoid it becoming another place for the usual suspects to continue to repeat their invective.

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