New M2 MAX is a BEAST

Cubase
61

I have a 14" MBP but I’m not going to replace it with another. Back to PC. They component upgrade costs are hilarious so that has to be factored in. Plus, i basically had to go Thunderbolt 3 for everything and avoid off-brands due to how bad compatibility M-series has with SSD enclosure chipsets and other peripherals. This laptop has bricked multiple USB 3.2 SSD enclosures due to chipset inconpatibilities (disk is fine, enclosure no longer works), on top of the nerfed speeds (25% performance tax).

So, instead of a USB 3.2 $20 enclosure, i had to buy a TB3 $90-100 enclosure to get comparable performance and not risk bricking the device. Otherwise, i could end up spending more before i found one that would work reliably.

At the end of the day, it turned out to be no different than Intel Macs. I still paid over a grand more than a PC Laptop i could self service upgrade for very little investment, and still not notice the performance gap (I have a good Ryzen laptop, and use both often) while limiting overall software choice. Not quite a win for me.

Best thing about it is the Mini LED display, for watching HDR content.

Benchmarks are not real life, unless your job is running benchmarks.

Mac Studio is overall a better value, esp with the price of Mini LED monitors coming down.

1 Like
62

This just released video sheds some additional light on the subject about the trade offs (never mind the click bait title, because all YouTubers are forced to use those, because otherwise their videos sink into oblivion).

p.s. my highly subjective strategy is to keep my DAW in Windows for this cycle, and upgrade to a newer, much more modest, and thus less expensive MacBook Pro for my daily driver, when my current one dies.

63

Yikes, this video makes some very good points,

I’ve taken a closer look and for £3,200 I can get an i9 13900K, 96GB Ram DDR5 - 12TB of fast internal nvme storage and use that as my workhorse PC in my studio to run Cubase 12 Pro and my large VI library,

And that leaves me some money in the budget to get a Mac M2 Mini for my writing room.

The point about the PC is I can put in it only a basic GPU with the Studio M2 Ultra I’m paying for GPU capability I don’t need.

There’s still the issue of heat and noise of course with an i9 13900K but perhaps a suitable AIO will solve that issue to some extent.

Still not fully decided yet what to do, there’s a lot to consider - so many different pro’s and con’s.

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64

To make a fair price comparison you need to be looking at proper workstation PC:s (like Dell Precision or HP Z) and not custom builds to set against the Mac line.

A PC workstation might still be less costly but I bet the difference is smaller. And a custom PC build might still be a good choice for certain users, particularily non professionals.

But, for a fair price comparison you need to look at workstation classed PC:s from reputable vendors or it’s apples and oranges (pun intended).

65

Are Scan UK 3XS systems not considered professional?

They’re built all mine in the past and have never given me a seconds trouble?

I’ve worked as a full time professional for 42 years and counting :slight_smile:

I can’t imagine a Dell workstation would perform better than a custom built for Cubase workstation put together by a respected reputable company like Scan UK.

Perhaps I’m wrong - but my experience with Scan has been faultless.

66

I’m not sure I follow?

67

A proper workstation is a computer where the hardware and software has been put together and tested to function properly for a certain kind of (usually heavier) work. In short it is a form of certified performance and reliability that comes at a significantly higher price.

A computer you assemble yourself could be as good but it could also be plagued by component and software conflicts. It’s a bit of a gamble. As a home user the much lower price may be worth it. But for a large operation, like for instance a visual effects studio, that is a dangerous risk. The cost of downtime is much higher than the cost of expensive equipment.

Apple’s pro computer line are workstations in this regard and when people compare their price to non-workstation computers it’s not a proper comparison. The price is still important of course but it’s not a valid 1:1 comparison.

Apple’s marketing might still be funky though, like it is with most large companies. I’m not having an opinion on that. Just the price comparison.

68

It’s as I said above, the choice is which O/S you want to use, if that’s not a concern and you just want as much raw power and upgradeability for your money then go PC.

It’s a really simple decision to make, particularly as you’ve used both.

In the creative sphere I always buy what my heart desires, I’ve learnt that I can never be unhappy in that decision, so listen to what it’s telling you, you cannot put a price on happiness.

You’re in a very lucky position comparing top models like this, many people just drool at the top specs. The chances of hitting the limits of either machine, based on what you have at the moment, is incredibly slim.

69

Sibben, I don’t understand your point.

Scan UK are considered extremely professional, their professional user base in the creative industry is quite impressive. I’ve never built my own PC’s - I’ve always bought Scan Systems that come with an on-site service warranty and as I said they’re never ever miss a heart beat.

I have so many friends that are weekend warrior hobby creatives and they use Apple Studio’s (maily Max systems) … I mean I love the look and functionality of the Apple Eco System but I’ve never considered them to be anymore “pro” than expensive custom built PC’s.

You’re view is clearly different - I can respect that.

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70

True, they’re both great solutions.

Yes, I’m lucky I can afford the initial outlay, but still my next system has to last a very long time (I get 8/9 years from my systems) I can’t afford to change very often and so long term the cost is not too heavy.

71

I was referring to the YouTube video and making a general observation on the difference between a real workstation and a custom build and how many price comparisons are very simplified.

I made no judgement what so ever if your Scan UK computer is better, worse or more or less professional. If they’ve always delivered for you that’s excellent.

72

Fair enough.

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73

huh ?

Who questioned, if Apple’s pricing is “fair” or even a “fair” comparison of systems?

The conversation was simply about different trade-offs within a comparable budget.

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74

There is no fair pricing comparison.

Apple’s pricing is not designed for fairness. It’s designed to generate maximum profit margins by leveraging brand reputation, brand loyalty, and brand partisanship. Most boutique brands (or those which aspire to be) do this. Microsoft, Samsung, Razer, etc. also do this. Their machines are priced well above average in the higher price brackets relative to the spec package on offer.

No one would accept HP selling a $2,000 i9 PC with 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD and an RTX 3070. The charade is pretty transparent until brand loyalty fogs it up. That always lends them a legion of supporters to do the work for them - convincing others that it is worth it, or even a “great deal.”

Same thing happens in other hardware segments (Native Instruments, Akai, etc.).

With yearly refreshes, the value of these devices drop too fast, anyways, as retailers are constantly selling the previous gen at pretty massive discounts. 8 months after the 2021 models release, Best Buy was selling them for $4-600 off.

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75

I have seen that clip and it seems totally fair.

What i would say is in all of those comparisons we are not talking about an intel computer tuned down to kept as silent as possible. They will have the intel ramping up with fan noise and heat to get the best out if it. So its not an audio studio comparison.

Its also mostly about video rendering so its a graphics card vs Mac Studio.

I have an M1 Mac Book pro and a M1 Max Studio. I would not sell them for an M2, its not enough of a jump in performance. Maybe with M3 or M4 it will be worth it but who knows. There isn’t much my M1 will not do anyway.

There are some positives in that video too so its not a bad review, its about video performance and Apple marketing. Neither of which is applicable in an Audio Studio.

I have the base Mac Studio with 64 gb of RAM, i like it because it just works, out of the box it just works.

And its like schrodinger’s cat. If I taped over the light on the front and turned my monitor off I would have no way of knowing if it was ON or OFF. There are just no signs until your ear is touching the case at the back. I could leave it for months never knowing if it was on or off, it never makes a sound. I could render out mix after mix after mix and it never makes a sound.

But if someone has an Intel that does that then should not bother with an Apple M1 or M2. Thats my opinion. That is its main party trick, its silent and its small. I could carry it anywhere in my backpack if I wanted to.

But who care if Intel is better or Apple, they are just computers. Those are my first two Apple computers and I will not be going back to intel or windows in a hurry. Unless intel bring out something that runs without fan noise. I certainly will not be buying an Intel just to detune it and turn off the turbo to stop the fans coming on, that’s like buying a sports car but never going above 30 mph.

If someone wants to buy intel then buy it, if they wants a Mac then buy that instead. Its not about stupidity or brand loyalty. They are both good, both are fast chips capable or running a DAW. Apple is always more expensive but it us also generic which is good two, it either works or it needs fixing. There is no thinking about what hardware was swapped out or changed that is suddenly causes issues. But some people love messing around with computers and building them, I used to myself.

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76

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

77

when i look at geekbench score or cinebench score, and then look at cubase bench score it makes me think that now cubase works better on mac os than on windows , i am not yet able to proove that but i ll try to do so with a dual boot on my ryzen with one windows and one macos, or if someone has already did that please share.

Regards

78

from my humble experience and view, its about the same probably

the big difference between the two systems is probably going to be 3rd party stuff…

if you leave windows and macos ultra clean and use not a lot of 3rd party plugin, they are both going to be good i think.

the real difference will be a full and used install

i have 338 VST3 and 208 VST2 plugins installed
on top of this the complete plugins from Waves/NI/Arturia/Plugin Alliance etc etc

i also have installed (among others):

-Ableton Live + gazillion hacks, tweaks and things for Push controller
-Logic Pro + extra plugins
-GFX programs like Photoshop Pixelmator Davinci Final Cut Pro etc etc
-Brew
-Stable Diffusion + models + tweaks etc etc
-Steam with Tomb Raider and Metro full games installed
-GPT4All + models

basically 1TB system disk FULL OF CRAP :stuck_out_tongue:

I get some Cubase 12 crashes, but not a lot.
For system performance, its way, way better than my old 5950x even when i render with SD in the background.
And i never hear it spinning, only with video-rendering (when its maxing out GPU) it sounds like a vacuum cleaner haha
Oh and i can do this on battery for about 6 hours or more on full capacity (no throttling), and it charges through a regular phone batter bank!

There are some issues, one thing is that macOS has a new audio system where the headphone and speakers are two seperate drivers. Cubase doesnt like this (yet).

2 Likes
79

M3:

80

nice one!

good news for m1 owners who want/need faster cpu/mem/gpu and people who are in doubt of investing into a new device and are holding off on M2…the difference between M1 and M2 was too low i think, right?

kind of a tick-tock business model like with iphones etc

would be nice to see M3, M4, M5 every two years, so you can prepare and save for whats coming :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like