New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

So there is a idea here that HALion is a Sound Creation only, so
There are no need for libraries, So why couldn’t other Companies sound create new
libraries … I don’t know where this is some written in stone rule but a interpretation
of the marketing campaign … The point is HALion is completely intergraded in cubase
it just makes a lot of sense as a go to for sounds as well as a sound creation…

As a sound developer I think the biggest problem is that there is absolutely no information on how to create & distribute collections as vst-sound containers. I bought Halion to support it with 3rd party products, but I have yet to work out a simple way of distributing, especially as the sample paths are not relative. I have never received an answer to my support email sent quite some time ago requesting information on this, and so it is simply just so much easier to support Kontakt.

I’m still hoping to find out how it should be done but I find it seriously frustrating… I’m sure I’m not the only developer that has discovered this. The manual barely mentions vst-sound and most of that info is only in German. Halion is an exciting environment to me, but until I can feel I can actually make and distribute products I’m not able to put the time into it.

I seriously hope that they pay some attention to making this easy in the next version, if it was simple to do I think there would be many more 3rd party libraries released. Even just relative sample paths would be a major help so that you could have one folder with instruments and another with samplers shoulder to shoulder in a single folder. Kontakt wins hands down in that respect, I know that Steinberg are 100% invested in the mediabay way of working but personally I wish that they would also allow the option of working outside of that framework so that you can load instruments from anywhere as long as the samples are relatively in the same place. Relative paths for samplers is essential in my opinion. Padshop is similarly painful to distribute.

Aloha M,

Some really kool thoughts posted in this thread.

I too would love to see/hear some new sounds/libraries in H5 and HS2;
but I believe you just answered yer own question.

Too bad dis ain’t ‘Charlie S’ woikin on ‘Notator’ or ‘Cubase’ etc thinking things like:

1-what’s best for musicians?
2-can I make a lil $$ from it?

No!

Corps like Yamy think only in one language. $$$$$

So my conclusion is;
from the Yamy POV there must be more $$$ in hardware.
(kinda like Apple)

So we wait. Not too long we hope. :slight_smile:

And as was posted, there is already some amazing stuff out there.
Just grab some and use it.

Good Luck!
{‘-’}

AstralP, I hear you. It would appear to me that Yamaha have managed to beat some customer awareness into Steinberg since the takeover but it has yet to seep into the deep crevices of the various VSTi departments. Personally, as a user I despaired of ever seeing HALion 4 and eventually went to Kontakt 4. When it did appear, I was an early adopter and have since upgraded to H5, but also to K5 as there is simply more happening over at NI, and with Kontakt content providers.

I have floated the idea of allowing content to be produced using H5 that can be consumed in HALion Sonic SE (which is now effectively free in all current versions of Cubase). That would be the inverse of the NI proposition, whereby a free player is provided, but the content is paid.

There could be a tiered model whereby content could be available for Cubase Elements, Artist and Pro, and additional paid content could be available to all, but a free library should be available to the “LE” version which would be bundled with hardware; HALion (full) should be able to create content for HSSE so it can be consumed even by the LE customers, thus enticing them to become Cubase users.

Has anyone seen the new Komplete 10 packages that are presented ?
Mamamia! Very heavy and competitive imho.
Komplete gets more and more interesting by the day at nearly the same price, and that integration with their new komplete keyboards looks very nice. Strange though that they have no 88-keys option, since kontakt prefers a lot of keys for their switches.

I hope SB takes the challenge and will come up with some very very nice stuff or they probably will have difficult times in the near future to place their very nice product that Halion 5 is, because the gap between both widens if nothing is being done.

kind regards,
R.

Komplete is very big but how many people actually use more than a few of those instruments? Anyways I agree SB can’t compete with that ATM, but then again it is not a direct comparison anyways… Perhaps if SB were to bundle all the VI and VST together then they might have something to make customers think about… THen they can also add some extra content packs for Halion (like orchestral)…

As for the controller I would not be concerned with that, looks like another toy that will likely be thrown out after the novelty wears off. Again, how many composers and producers use only Komplete to produce with? Not that many, most use a combination of many sample and instruments combined with real workstations and high quality keyboard controllers.

i agree with your comment to a certain level. But for 500 euro’s they cover a big bit of the spectrum now (each time more and more) at very reasonable quality levels, even if some of those banks and vsts are at age. And as is the hardware not released yet, it seems an attack on what novation has done with their Automap, but implemented solely on to their native software. If that is implemented as i am suspecting that could be directional for future developments, since Automap software imho was years beyond the rest, but ineffective due to the liberty in development (standards) area of the long list of devs.

Hi,

I feel that the Steinberg development team is more focused on developing the actual tools, rather than the content.

i.e. Halion 5

It would make a lot of sense to me, if YAMAHA would have a dedicated sample library development team/division that is focused on providing high-quality sample libraries for Halion 5. YAMAHA has a lot of experience when it comes to developing sampled instruments, especially on their ROMplers, (MOTIF Line), they could surely put that experience, and deep knowledge of sampling to good use, and develop a lot of new libraries for Halion 5.

Not sure why this has not happened, but I feel if they care about Halion 5, they should go forward, and develop content for it. and start competing with Kontakt. So far it seems like they are not up to dealing with this, or are hesitant to put the time, and money into this type of venture.

Any comments, or feedback from Steinberg on this would be interesting to read, plus your thoughts on this topic.

Thanks,
Muziksculp

Interesting thought, but I doubt Yamaha would be interested in helping to develop software libraries that would compete with the own hardware. Some of the sounds are already from Yamaha (at least according to my ears) so technically there appears to be little problem, but as you say, Steinberg are more focussed on providing the tools … which is actually OK by me, I’m more interested in the creative potential rather than the libraries; for that I (also) have Kontakt …

I guess they are already on that train.
Halion is more than that particular sampler right now.
They use it as an engine for all the new vstis.
Have a look at Groove Agent 4. it is completely based on Halion 5
and so one could say that it is more likely a Halion extension than
a whole new thing.

I can only guess. But I think Yamaha is already involved and they are pushing
things further.

If Yamaha is pushing things further, they are not doing enough, and are doing it too slow compared to other developers.

Where are the new Yamaha/Steinberg Halion 5 Sample Libraries ? so far they have been invisible to me. :unamused:

+1

To make a ‘live’ analogy:

The Cubase programme itself is to me is like a beautifully sounding
sound stage with great editing facilities and some ‘nice’ musicians
just sitting in the wings waiting to be used if necessary. (Halion/VST collection etc)

However, once I have ‘bought the hall’, so to speak,
I prefer to first bring in some out-of-town musicians from other places like:
Ivory/Trillian/Sup Drums/Omni/NI/ SampleTank etc and then on occasion I will
let some ‘local’ players from Steiny ‘sit in’. If necessary.

Just my approach.
{‘-’}

Hey Curt, but it would be good to use more musicians very familiar with the hall. Friendly guys who know there way around the building already, and are a breeze to work with, no additional paperwork, no new accounts.

Just set up and get right to work.

Cuz the Trilian musicians are getting a little predictable and they do not stay in touch with me to let me know their schedule… and I have simply stopped fighting with IK musicians, their playing is just ‘ok’ but working with jerks isn’t worth my time or money. I’m always fine with bringing in different drummers, that is the one thing which I want the variety.

+1
some how steinbergs Halion series sounds are kind of “OK” for mediacore level not more than that… tons of presets but
most of them are based on the same avarage level samples.
i much prefer less presets but have some high quality useful ones. steinberg really needs to be better in that department (i mostly reference for the “real” acoustic instruments in halion/sonic.)

i disagree that the samples that are delivered are average. But the presets are of a stoneage level sometimes indeed.
And then i focus on the rendering of real life instruments.
By far most of them are quite nice samples and the level of sample-level-programming behind those mutli-layered banks is probably something we will never reach.

But they are just offered as old scool playback stuff. But the engine is far more capable of doing things with them.
You see this happening in some other banks, as f.e. the dark planet soundbank. There they show the functionality of the software, but, only with single layer samples, and heavily pushing towards slicing.

The presentation of the soundbanks that do exist, is imho thus just the tip of the Iceberg in terms of functionality if someone could dive into those “old” banks with nice samples of real life instruments.
Why spending tons of resources on another guitar or string or bagpipe or horn with little difference with the ones we have? They are ok imho. They made tons of good music with it.

Advanced and intelligent automation at the preset level, and i suggest a much further approach then it is implemented now with the little effort that has being put into f.e. the flex engines, can upgrade those soundbanks for many more years without the need to reinvent the wheel.

kind regards,
R.


For example Vienna explores this terrain with the pro version of their instruments. And as far as i can notive, their is still terrain to cover.

and i agree that you get the feeling, with the current presentations, that you can sometimes have the feeling that they are buying modules and adding it just “as is” without adding much “Sparks” to it.
That is a bit a no-go imho.
Ok, we are the ones that need to make the music, but they are the ones that have to show us the way with their soft. :slight_smile:
And it gives good reviews too most of the times, if it is done properly.

Its not all bad of course… there are some good to great sounds, also the add-ons like neo-soul keys are great and dark planet too.(those i who i have and enjoy)
also maybe some samples are ok technically , but they are not good enough to reproduce the right articulation and feeling of an real instrument.
for example the new ethnic sound with H5/HS2… well most of them are toyish and one dimensional in term of playability , the arabic Percussion are too static and not convincing etc…
all in all in they are general workstations romplers with great potential , which need better specific genre quality libraries,developed by steinberg/yamaha and 3rd party developers.

FWIW and if you have not tried it. you should try an instrument of the Vienna stuff. Try to obtain a full articulation library.Then you’ll notice it is existing, but this is really a different kind of approach to sample libraries in terms of quality. There the focus is on top tech level on sampling. Their libraries are not affected by age. In fact NI uses their old banks as reference examples. But that kind of sample banks is very expensive too due to the limited number of customers, and i guess SB is not ever going to compete with that kind of stuff.

Itching to get in on this thread…

What attracted me to HaLion was how bloody fast and easy it is to get deep into personal sound design. It integrates so well into CuBase that it feels like ‘part of the DAW’. I’ve yet to experience any other workflow where I can sit back and ‘jam’, and really easily grab samples or loops right out my ‘jam session’ and drop them into Halion zones and have a working instrument foundation within moments. It’s rather nice for me to have it all in the same Media Browser, and to be able to drag and drop samples, zones, layers, and midi arps/loops from just about anywhere in the workflow that I desire.

Next…I’m quite excited about the note expression capabilities of Halion. Now that Steinberg has taken on the old Sibelius ‘score team’, I’m hopeful that this will lead to some pretty significant innovations in score importation/ interpretation and engraving quality for the flagship DAW line of products.

I’m not sure if people realize it just yet, but note expression can be implemented in ways that could seriously reduce the need for a 20gig round robin set of samples for a convincing solo instrument. That can be a big plus for the growing trend to use things like tablets and smart-phones as capable, yet portable composition work-stations.

If I need a prefab sample library, I’ll buy one and use what ever ‘free’ player comes with it if need be. Yes, I’d love to see more libraries become available for Halion…even if they were just raw sample sets that didn’t come with a single patch…but really…as someone with no plans to market the instruments I create with Halion, I think it’s close enough in price and power to the full version of Kontakt that I’m getting my money’s worth.

In my personal view, I put my money into ease of use…primarily, much better integration with CuBase. If I need third party libraries, I can always still buy them and use the free players that come with them.

One thing I seriously miss from the hardware sampler days…is access to really nice raw sample libraries. Yes, we can still find old CD collections…with some usable samples in them, and Halion does a better than expected job of importing them…but sadly, there’s not many ‘raw libraries’ out there (that I’m aware of) in today’s 24bit high frequency formats. The stuff coming out these days is encrypted…and locks you into their players and patches. Resampling is an option I suppose…but a PITA, and still forces us to pay for all the patches/programming, players and stuff when all I really want is the raw samples.

most of it spot on imho. Great state of the art machine, and i love the GUIvst3 approach as an addition to your statement.
The only thing imho not mentioned is a record button with assignable inputs. That would bring it back to the old scool sampler functionality.
The new stuff is drag and drop with references to locations but the old way of being able to build your own library on the spot was a great functionality, and it’s sad that this is no longer in scope. :slight_smile:

kind regards,
R.