Hi, can anybody explain the benefit of the new window-system?
Right now I only have dozens of icons on my taskbar when Nuendo is running, much more confusing than before, where I just had one nuendo-icon. Hard to find the folders or third-party-software which I have opened in background on taskbar.
What improvements does this new window-handling offer?
Yeah, I agree with that. I’m really feeling that the new way of managing windows is getting in the way of how I interact with the computer.
In addition to what you wrote I find that the new way ALT+TAB works is annoying. I really dislike that I’m not switching between the last two windows but rather the last two windows in Nuendo, if I’m in Nuendo with a couple of windows open (like project and mixers).
Anyway: For the issue with the taskbar I just now set it to “Always combine, hide labels” in “Taskbar and Start Menu Properties”, which is available from a right click on the taskbar and choosing “Properties”. Now all apps have one icon each by default, and if you hoover on an icon it “unfolds” to show the individual windows open in it. I’ll try this for a while and see if it’s an improvement…
On a multi monitor setup the enhancement is pretty obvious IMO.
They somehow rendered the system “Daw centric” and multiscreen aware.
No more disappearing mixer and outside windows when you open a file Explorer to drop files in the pool.
Project window and Devices panels for instance can be outside the daw’s background zone.
Wavelab, Audition or Audacity can be open side to side with Nuendo while keeping floating meters or which ever tools visible.
I have 5 monitors hanging on my system and the new method of window handling is excellent in my setting. A few things to rethink, but in the end it is better for me.
So that’s one answer to “what were they thinking?” Monitors are so inexpensive now that, at least to me, seeing all the windows that matter at a single glance with no switching is completely worth it. What I’m doing now would not have been possible the old way. I will grant that the focus issue for Key Commands is unfortunate but I am finding ways to resolve that.
I miss the DAW-Background. I dislike every third-party app/folder/window which is opened in background glancing through between the Nuendo windows. Absolutely irritating imo. I also had to disable my desktop background.
My Eucon-Controller enables me to switch between opened applications or windows. Right now it is toggling through dozens of Nuendo-Windows until I get the third party app I’d like to focus.
Do not know, why I should toggle through all these Nuendo-Windows at all, especially when working on a multi-screen-setup. I have 4 Screens attached.
Right now, I see less Nuendo on screen than before, since I am forced to use a Aero-Theme with it’s clumsy title-bars on each Nuendo-window. I liked to use the thin and much more pro-looking Basic-Themes…
Another issue which may actually have a pretty big impact on my workflow is that I have outboard devices that output macros in the form of key commands. I’ve noticed that the new window management system kills some of them.
I have a client that gives me short 30 second commercials, all being almost exactly the same, but with different tags. So I have to load like 10-20 OMFs for this job whenever it comes in. I created a macro on my Preh Programmable keyboard which selects all the key presses after I’ve initially highlighted the OMF in question (i.e. ‘enter’, ‘tab’, ‘enter’ etc). With the new management system in the middle of executing this macro Nuendo switches windows which makes the macro fail.
The only way to make these macros work for me now is to ONLY have Nuendo open and ONLY one window in Nuendo…
Here’s yet another annoying issue with the new window handling:
WINDOW PRIORITY when switching.
My setup when cutting dialog is one monitor that has the project window OR mixer, and a secondary plasma getting full-screen picture.
I’m editing in the project window using key commands and a trackball and a Contour Shuttle Pro V2…
Nuendo doesn’t catch a key command - or I accidentally press a key - or I intentionally toggle to a different application to check email or whatever - or intentionally toggle Control Room open…
I close Control Room - or I press ALT+TAB to go back to my project window
Result - Video window is in focus
So it seems as if there has been no thought to how windows are prioritized when moving between them, something that was never a problem before as far as I recall. Out of all the windows we use in post I would argue that the video window is the one we need in focus the least often. It just sits there playing back video. The logical procedure would be to do what windows normally does which is to revert to the previous window. In my case that would be the project window if that’s what was in focus before.
THIS IS VERY ANNOYING.
The same applies to toggling a mixer window.
1 Project window is in focus.
2. Open the mixer = mixer is in focus.
3. Close the mixer = video window is in focus!
So in each case I now have to continue by pressing ALT+TAB to get back to the project window.
I am clicking all the time on those taskbar-icons to get hidden windows back on my screens
when I want to close the software I need about 3 trys, first always mixer closes, then video, then pool…
when toggling to another software in background, I have to toggle toggle toggle toggle toggle, till I’m there…
really I just do not get, why they have to continue in screwing up proper working elements of their software since they buried N5… First the mixer, the channel edit window, then this.
Since N6 I have to click click click click click click click click…
I’m using a multiple monitor system and had each monitor showing the windows I wanted to see all within the SINGLE Nuendo environment just fine. Now I’m losing “screen real estate” with that USELESS and confusing Aero-Theme view! Is there ANY way to make it appear like N6.5 or earlier?
Each iteration seems to become less and less efficient, which requires more and more controller oriented devices to work around these workflow obstacles! It appears to me that only Nuage owners can bypass all of this nonsense, because they have DEDICATED CONTROLS for these, uh hem, improvements(??)!
Anybody using any other controller has a lot more issues (as have been mentioned by other controller users) to deal with, but still less than anyone just using a mouse. There should at least be a preference option for those of us who want to keep using the “one environment” setup.
As has already been stated, the real advantage to this new window handling system is its flexibility/adaptability from single, dual, through extended monitoring setups. I had a bit of trouble at first because I never had Aero enabled on any of my systems here, but having used Cubase 8 Pro for several months prior to Nuendo 7’s release gave me a leg up on what to expect.
First off, disable Transparent Glass under Visual Effects in Performance Options, which will get rid of the see-through issue.
If you prefer the way 6.5 looked, then stretch Nuendo across the screens per usual. It’s not 100% the way it was, but close.
As for window focus, the Alt/Tab and Alt/Shift/Tab (Reverse) and Ctrl/Tab (Toggle Through all windows) and Ctrl/Shift/Tab (Toggle between last two windows) seems to work quickly and efficiently enough here, although I am working on three 24 inch main screens and utilize the new window system the way it was intended - not stretching Nuendo, but placing my mixer and other primary views as satellites, and disabling Transparent Glass being the only tweak.
Bottom line, from my perspective, this new system is far better than the old way, though it does take some getting used to. I hate change, too, but sometimes getting dragged kicking and screaming into a new way of thinking can be ultimately for the better. Can you tell I’ve been married for almost thirty years?
See, to me this isn’t about “change” or “a new way of thinking”, this is about swapping one thing at the expense of another.
I would expect (and correct me if I’m wrong) that if you’re doing what I’m doing you’re actually subjected to exactly the same thing, just with more windows. In other words if you want to use something using key commands your window needs to be in focus. If that’s the project window and you’re coming back from iZotope RX for example then you end up in the wrong window.
How is that an improvement? It just isn’t. This is just a tradeoff.
For anyone using multiple monitors there’s arguably a tradeoff that’s worth it. For anyone using a control surface to circumvent key commands the negative result is avoided. For anyone working with one screen for the app (and possibly one for the video) I honestly don’t see an improvement, at all.
Why don’t you just explain how having to be in focus in a window in order for a key command to work is an improvement rather than resorting to sarcasm?
If I want to do something in the mixer window and have a key command for it it no longer works (starting version 6 or whatever) without having the mixer window in focus. This means extra clicking to get the task done. How is that an improvement in and by itself?
Using the taskbar shortcuts will cut out a lot of BS. If your last window in focus was the mixer and you switch to another program via the Start key + the number 1 through 0 (Depending on where the open programs are resident), you can regain mixer focus by simply reversing the process. Here, Reason is 6 and Nuendo is 7 on the taskbar, so I can get to Reason by Start Key + 6, and I can get back to Nuendo’s mixer by using Start + 6 again to give focus back to Nuendo. Whatever window in Nuendo you have in focus when you shift to another program will be there in focus when you shift back.
By the way, what mixer functions were you able to access via key commands in previous versions of Nuendo while the mixer was not in focus?
Nope. Not on Windows 7 x64 on my computer it won’t.
I just tested this by opening a mixer window (mixer #2), switching via ALT+TAB to this browser, then pressing START+5 for Nuendo, and ended up in the Project window, not mixer. Same with mixer #1.
So, no, that doesn’t work. How is that an improvement for me?
Any, as far as I can recall. This goes both ways.
What SB did as far as I can see is create a set of commands that are “local” to different windows. This is different compared to if the commands were available on a global level. It makes sense in some instances and not in others. For example; visibility agents aren’t the same for project and mixer windows. Does that make sense? I’d say it depends on which agent you want to trigger.
In order then to access any command that controls the mixer I have to be in the mixer. Before, again as far as I can recall (because this has been a few years now), I could trigger commands via keys, and some commands controlled the mixer and the mixer only. The effect was that regardless of what window I was in I could trigger the command, because the command was exclusive and you’d only have one key (/combo) assigned to one command. But now I have to focus the window.
If you have an app where one of the biggest benefits is being able to use key commands to trigger functions, and have them freely assignable, then more clicks seems like an unequivocal step backwards. I would also argue that in ANY software more clicks/presses necessary to execute the same function as before is a step backwards.
A problem here from a GUI standpoint is that you have to know what window is in focus. Since F3 (assuming default) triggers the mixer window, one would think that’d solve the problem at least partially. One could just write a macro that is whatever command one wants and add “F3” before it, but the problem then is that F3 doesn’t automatically focus, it toggles. So if, for whatever reason, your mixer ends up hidden behind your project window, F3 doesn’t appear to do anything. That’s because it started off by closing the window instead of opening it which would have put it into focus. So you need to know that the window is closed before executing the command.
Additionally, if you are using an external device to trigger macros it can actually get worse, because Nuendo now doesn’t trigger an entire macro internally. It’ll see the F3 key press, close the mixer, and then trigger whatever other key strokes are coming in from the macro after (unless it misses them).
So, in other words the burden in operation has increased in that you have to reprogram your commands and make them longer, and/or pay attention to window status just to be able to execute the commands.
It’d be one thing if the improvements that come with this new system would apply to all users, or that those users it didn’t apply to automatically could easily and cheaply get to that point. But for some users the tradeoff isn’t noticed because they’re using Nuage, which is a 5-figure investment. So that’s of no consolation for most users. And for yet others the benefit is found when using multiple monitors, say a couple for Nuendo and one for video. But then again, users like me use a single monitor for Nuendo and one for video, and/or a laptop (single) for all. Again, I might think the benefits outweighed the step backwards if I had more monitors, but I don’t. And control surfaces and number and size of monitors are pretty big issues.
Your mistake in switching from Nuendo to your browser was using the Alt+Tab, when you should have used the Start Key + whatever number your browser is on the taskbar, then using that same key combo to get back to Nuendo and the last window resident before you shifted focus. It works here every time without fail, and it is not my imagination. We are using the same OS.
Now, as for the rest of it, I am drawing a blank on what mixer functions you would be able to access via keyboard commands when Nuendo was not in focus. I can get things like Arm all tracks or disarm all tracks to work even now from within Nuendo without the mixer being in focus, but I am having some difficulty in understanding what other functions one would want to access without a visual on the mixer or inspector for precision.
Now, I’m not claiming to be an expert here, and perhaps I’m overlooking something, but I’m not exactly a novice, either, and am simply trying to get a better grip on the situation. Anyway, sorry if none of this is of any help to you, but that is truly my only intention here.