Newbie Audio setup confusion, advice please

WaveLab
1

Hi all, please bear with me with this long post, the more I think about this, the more confused I get.

I have a fairly basic set-up.

Korg M3
Peavy PV8 USB (very small mixing desk)
Wharfdale Diamond 8.1 Pro Active speakers

Fairly high end (although a couple of years old now) Win 7 64bit Pro PC,
i7-920 CPU, Gigabyte GA-EX58-DS4 Motherboard
6GB Tripple channel RAM
Dell Ultrasharp 2407WFP 24” Monitor, cheapo 19" Hanns-G 2nd monitor
Tagan 700W PSU
Nvidia GTX 465 Graphics card
Asus Xonar D2X PCI Express Sound card

and have just purchased Cubase 6

Just in-case it helps, the Asus D2X soundcard has the following specs

Sample Rate and Resolution

Analog Playback Sample Rate and Resolution:
44.1K/48K/96K/192KHz @ 16/24bit

Analog Recording Sample Rate and Resolution:
44.1K/48K/96K/192KHz @ 16/24bit

S/PDIF Digital Output:
Dolby Digital, DTS, WMA-Pro

S/PDIF Digital Input:
44.1K/48K/96K/192KHz @ 16/24bit

ASIO 2.0 Driver Support:
44.1K/48K/96K/192KHz @ 16/24bit
I/O ports

Analog Output Jack:
3.50mm mini jack *4 (Front/Side/Center-Subwoofer/Back)

Analog Input Jack:
3.50mm mini jack *2 (Line-In/Mic-In)

Other line-level analog input (for CD-IN/TV Tuner):
CD-In, Aux-In (4-pin header on the card)

Digital S/PDIF Output:
Coaxial and High-bandwidth Optical Combo Connector
Supports 192KHz/24bit

Digital S/PDIF Input:
Coaxial and High-bandwidth Optical Combo Connector
Supports 192KHz/24bit

MIDI Ports:
Additional MPU-401 MIDI I/O bracket and converter cable

Audio Performance

Output Signal-to-Noise Ratio (A-Weighted):
118dB for all channels dB dB

Input Signal-to-Noise Ratio (A-Weighted):
118 dB dB

Output THD+N at 1kHz:
0.0004% (-108dB)

Input THD+N at 1kHz:
0.0004% (-108dB)

Frequency Response (-3dB, 24-bit/96kHz input):
<10Hz to 46kHz (for all channels)

Frequency Response (-3dB, 24-bit/192kHz input):
<10Hz to 46kHz (for all channels)

Output/Input Full-Scale Voltage
2 Vrms (5.65 Vp-p)

Sample Rate Conversion Quality:
Almost lossless, high-fidelity floating-point filters, with:
-140dB THD+N (typical value for 44.1K->48KHz, 24bit)
145dB Dynamic Range (typical value for 44.1K->48KHz, 24bit)

Main Chipset

Audio Processor:
ASUS AV200 High-Definition Sound Processor (Max. 192KHz/24bit)

24-bit D-A Converter of Digital Sources:
TI Burr-Brown PCM1796 *4 (123dB SNR, Max. 192kHz/24bit)

24-bit A-D Converter for Analog Inputs:
Cirrus-Logic CS5381* 1 (120dB SNR, Max. 192kHz/24bit)

The Peavey USB mixing desk has the following specs for it’s USB capabilities,

Peavey’s PV6 and PV8 mixers include a two-channel, 16-bit, 48kHz USB audio interface.

PDF manual here
http://www.peavey.com/assets\literature\manuals/03513340_7777.pdf


At the moment I have the following.

Main left and right outputs from Korg M3 into stereo input of Peavy mixing desk
Line out from Pc sound card into other stereo inputs of mixing desk

Main out of mixing desk to speakers.

Which was fine before I purchased Cubase, but now I want the ability to record Audio into Cubase, a little bit of Vocal but mainly my Korg M3.

Finances are very tight at the moment so I haven’t got much spare cash to spend , hence if I need to buy any sort of Audio interface, it would be a low end one.


What I want to be able to do with the minimum amount of reconfiguration, is to be able to to the following.

A) Use as it currently is, PC sound card and Korg both playing normally through mixer.

B) Have Korg recording into Cubase and the result from the PC sound card playing through the mixer

C) Occasionally also recording vocals into Cubase

Option A is how it’s set up so zero problem there.

  1. I presume as my sound card is 192Khz/24bit I’m better off using that for audio input than the 48Khz/16bit audio on the mixer? (even if the mixer is fine, it’s no good for playback when I’m playing games etc as the mixer gives no control over hi,mid,low for USB sound)

  2. Option B should be easy to set up.

I have individual outs on my Korg M3 so I presume simply getting a lead that has two 1/4 inch jacks on one end to plug into two of the individual outputs and a 3.5mm stereo jack on the other to plug into the PC sound cards line in, then simply telling my Korg to use outputs 1 and 2 instead of main left and right, should work fine?

  1. I suppose that the few times I need a mic, I could use the audio on the mixing desk, however if I understand it correctly, the main outputs are transmitted over USB which means that any Audio Cubase is playing that I’m singing along to, will also get recorded, as there appears no way to route individual channels on the mixing desk to the headphone jack. A way round this could be to simply plug headphones directly into the PC sound card when doing this, although this is starting to get messy, moving cables around etc.

  2. I could simply buy some sort of USB/PCI-express Audio interfaced that allows me to connect my mic and individual outs from the Korg M3, allowing me to keep my PC soundcard and my main Korg outputs into the mixing desk?

Hope I’ve made it clear what I’m trying to do, I want to be able to switch from say gaming, to playing my keyboard, then maybe fire up cubase, record a bit of audio etc with virtually zero unplugging of cables, and as little pain as possible when changing around which sound card drivers are active etc under windows.

Sorry for the length, wanted to include as much info as possible.

best

Joe

2

You don’t need another audio interface, the current problem is that you already have 2.
This is easily solved by using ASIO4all in Cubase. Download ASIO4all, and select it as the driver to use in Cubase.
Asio4all lets you combine your USB mixer and ASUS soundcard into a single device Cubase can recognise and use. Use the driver control panel to enable all the in and outputs you need and assign the input and output busses in VST connections in Cubase and all is set.

There is absolutely no need to use 192khz anywhere. Nobody uses that ever, unless it’s for very specific reasons. Stick to 44100.

Outside of cubase. the ASIO4all driver does nothing, but as I understand it, your setup works already for what you want to do outside of cubase?

edit: Just realised you probably don’t need that asus soundcard at all. I think the mixer can receive audio straight over USB so there is no need to route the output of Cubase to your asus and then the asus to the mixer. Try installing the ASIO driver for your mixer and use that in Cubase. In VST connections set the in and output busses to the in and outputs of the mixer and you can do everything you want as well.
The only problem might be that windows can not use the mixer for audio work, you will have to see if windows can see and use it. That’s only relevant for things outside of Cubase, like listening to music/video’s etc.

I hope I made sense there, I was thinking out loud :wink:

3

Many many thanks, that has helped a lot.

The thing I still cant get my head around though is how the mixer actually works as an Audio device.

I’ve had a play, can set up so that WIndows plays games etc through the mixing desk (although I don’t have any way to adjust tone settings doing this), and can set ASIO4all so that Cubase can receive Audio.

But the big problem I’m having with this route is that it appears that the main left/right out of the mixing desk is what’s routed over the USB.

To try to explain what I mean, this is the sort of thing that’s happening.

  1. I record an audio track (Track 1) from my Korg M3 through my Mixing desk into Cubase using ASIO4all

  2. I create a new audio track (Track 2) to record a different sound from my Korg M3.

However what’s happening is, Cubase is playing Track 1 through my mixing desk so that I can hear it from the speakers, but everything that goes out of the main left/right is also sent over USB, so the audio in Track 2 contains both the audio from Track 2 and the audio from Track 1.

Either I’ve set something up wrongly (highly likely) or the mixing desk isn’t capable of doing what I want.

Will carry on playing.

Thanks again

Joe

4

Oh I see, so when recording a new track in cubase while there is another track playing back simultaneously, you record not only what you want to record, but also what’s being played back.

That sounds like a routing issue in the mixer indeed. I have no experience with peavey mixers, is there a software editor for it where you can play with the audio routing?

edit: from the manual I found this:

The USB port sends the mixer’s main/tape stereo out to the computer. The
amount of the main mix signal being sent to the USB port can be adjusted using the Record Level control
located next to the USB port.

Have a play with that button on the back, see if you can make it work with that.

5

I’ve had a very very good play around with various options and the mixer simply isn’t up to it :frowning: (was very cheap mind you).

The button mentioned in the manual is simply non existent, isn’t even in the pic on page 12 of the manual, typical.

I’ve tried various thing, disabling the Asus sound card and just using the mixer, problem of everything being sent back to the PC (tried every possible combinations of buttons)

Using the Mixer as the input to Cubase, the Asus as the output but plugging in the output into the tape inputs on the back of the mixing desk, again exactly the same problems.

Using either of the above methods, I get no sound at all coming out of the speakers unless button 14 on page 9 is pressed (has to be in the same pressed-in position to get sound out of either method which doesn’t quite make sense)

So, I’m going to write off using the mixer as an audio device to record from, I didn’t buy it to use as an audio device, so it’s no loss.

Which puts me back to how I was originally :slight_smile:

I’m more than happy to replace my Asus sound card with something more suitable.

Then I could if needed use my mixing desk audio as just the output from Cubase/my PC and use a different interface allowing me to plug in a mic and my M3.

I know my Asus is an audio device, but there’s no proper mic connection etc and I would rather something designed to do the job properly.

Was thinking along the lines of something like the “M-Audio fast track Pro” or the “Steinberg Ci1 USB audio interface”

Does that sound sensible?

Are there any other more suitable (not more expensive than the M-Audio or my wife might commit murder) audio interfaces please?

Many thanks for all your help

Joe

6

Yeah I got kinda confused with the diagram as I couldn’t find the button on there either. Figured I’d suggest it anyway :wink:

Maybe I’m missing something, but what functionality do you miss when you connect your speakers/headphones to the ASUS soundcard, and use the peavey for input only? IE Asus for outputs, mixer for inputs. That way you shouldn’t get the double recording issue, and still have all in and outputs available. To use this you’d need asio4all in cubase, and just use the asus as your normal soundcard outside of cubase for games etc. Or am I overlooking something now?

If you decide to get a CI or similar soundcard you’ll probably not need the peavey nor the asus, as those nifty units can do it all. (just like your mixer should btw, really weird design if you ask me.)

I enjoy those kind of problems btw, I set up my whole home setup through a rather complicated routing :stuck_out_tongue: Audio I record goes through my mixer 3 times now, noone I tried explaining it to could grasp it but it works fine :smiley:. But then again my Mackie mixer allows for more routing than your peavey.

7

Many thanks for all your help.

I might email Peavy to see if they can help.

The thing I’d be missing if I tried your suggestion is that quite often I simply play/practice on my Korg without the need to turn the PC on.

Will let you know if Peavy get back to me.

Think I should have looked into this more before getting my mixing desk, only had it about 8 weeks.

Thanks again

Joe

8

Just looked up your Mackie.

I paid £125 in my local music shop for my peavy, just found your Mackie online for £165 (might even find it cheaper, didn’t look too hard), wish Id looked into this more a few weeks ago, looks like if I had your desk, sorting out my problem would be relatively easy.

9

I see, standalone wouldn’t work in that setup. What did you use to connect your asus to the peavey? You seem to have most routing options when you use the tape input for that, that’s what I use on my mixer as well. I still can’t believe Peavey designed a USB mixer that doesn’t allow recording and playback simultaneously, there has to be a way :stuck_out_tongue:

Note that my Mackie is a full analog mixer and hasn’t got USB or firewire to carry audio to the PC. Should you want a mixer like that you’ll need an audio interface with 2 inputs and 2 outputs to record and playback audio to and from the mixer. You’ll have to add that to the price, unless the Asus has a good stereo input.

10

I used the stereo line out from the Asus into the tape in in the Peavey.

I think the USB mixers aren’t designed to do what I thought they were.

Reading the Mackie web site about their ProFX series, if I understand what it says, it works in the same way as my mixer and is designed simply as a quick way to record live events rather than to use the USB to record individual channels etc

integrated USB I/O takes the pain out of recording. Just connect the ProFX8 to a laptop, and you can record the whole mix. You can even stream music from your laptop during breaks. Once you get home, record more tracks or use the ProFX8 to playback some tunes during the next BBQ. Unless you’re a vegetarian…not that there’s anything wrong with that.

The innovative “USB Thru” switch allows for an impressive live/recording setup when using performance software. When gigging, stream the output of your performance software (or iTunes, for that matter) into the ProFX8. Combine that signal with anything plugged into the mixer, and send the whole thing back to the computer for recording. Archiving your integrated live performances has never been easier!

Looking at your mixer, I think that would make my entire life easier, as I wouldn’t even have to mess around changing my Korg M3 from main outputs (to mixer) to individual outputs (to soundcard/audio interface).

I could simply have the Alternative Outputs connected to the stereo input of my soundcard, and any time I want to record my Korg or vocals to Cubase, simply press the mute button for that channel to redirect it to the alternative out.

Think I’ll buy this and sell my Peavey on ebay as it seems to be the best solution. I could buy the M-Audio pro but it’s only around £15 cheaper than I can get the Mackie for and with the future on mind, getting other keyboards etc, the Mackie does look like the best solution.

Thanks

Joe

11

Yep, the alt out is what I use as well, I love how they made the mute button so much more useful than on a normal mixer :slight_smile:

Let us know how it works out!

12

I ordered your mixer last night and it’s just been delivered :slight_smile:

Reading through a thread on the Peavy forum with someone having similar requirements to me, the responses were

The function that you are trying to figure out is a designe to help the user from having a problem with oscillation or electronic feedback.

You can not have tracks playing back thru the mixer while recording at the same time. When an output is feed to an input this can easily result in regeneration.

The simple (remember entry level) mixer allows the recordist to put two tracks back into the mix via the RCA inputs, and switch the USB input off.



Ok. look, I know it’s entry level, My compact 4 by Soundcraft was entry level but it allowed for zero latency monitoring while recording. that is not a lot to ask, most people track while listening to the backing track in their headphones but don’t want to record the backing track, that is SIMPLE tracking.

I’m sorry, that I do expect and when you see a button saying ‘Tape to Headphones’ that is the assumption 100% of engineers/enthusiasts would make.



Yes, it’s possible with this mixer, but it takes a slight modification. It has to be opened and two sets of solder pads need to be connected.

If you look at the owner’s manual, there is a block diagram in the back. If you find the “Tape to Control Room” switch, you can see the solder pads that complete the circuit around the switch. This will mean the L/R mix is always sent to the headphones, then the Tape signal will be added when the switch is pressed.

The problem with this, as Marty suggested, is it sets up a feedback loop and if you are not careful with your gain settings it will run away. We originally shipped the mixer in this configuration, but changed it due to the number of complaints we received. We decided it was easier to deal with the couple of people who knew what to do with it, than to set up a dangerous situation for all users. And to be honest, I’ve only fielded this question a couple of times.



I appreciate the answer and I really mean no offense to Peavey with this post, I see what you mean about the feedback loop and this does make sense for live purposes but again not really so much for home recorders like myself.

I also understand that Peavey is generally a guitar based brand and therefore your clientele will mainly use for live purposes.

I will hunt down a solder fiend and get them to make the adjustments.



I have run into this same issue. I own the PV8 usb mixer, and I use it for home recordings. I would like to make these modifications to my mixer to be able to achieve the same effect. However, I am concerned about a few things. Will doing this void my warranty? And is there any guide, or walk through available so I can make these modifications myself?



I’m sure this would void your warranty, especially if done by anyone other than PV.

being boxed up now and put on ebay, will let you know how I get on with the Mackie

13

802-VLZ3 all easily set up and now doing exactly what I want :slight_smile:

All my problems are now solved.

Many many thanks for all your time and inspiring me to get your mixer :slight_smile:

14

Glad to hear that, good luck making music :smiley: