Not a single improvement to guitar notation?

Again.

It looks like dorico team has very little interest in that.
I personally have reported problems with the chord diagrams and library several times.
Chord Diagrams Library is a total mess, full of useless chord shapes that no-one will ever use and it’s impossible to delete them.
Transposition of chord forms along the neck is full of bugs. Most of the shapes you create are not available for other roots.
Creating personalised shapes creates tons and tons of duplicates cause every change you make automatically creates a duplicate. Custom shapes are root related and it’s impossible to navigate through the library and keep it organised. If I create a custom shape for maj7 chord it shouldn’t be root related, I should be able to find it in the library independently from the root I used when I created it. I should be able to modify it without creating a thousand of duplicates. It is so buggy it is even hard to expose the problems.

For one “improvement” you have made in one of the latest updates of Dorico 5 (have a muted string inside the barre line) things got even worse and now it is impossible to write one of the most common chord shapes in jazz:

The barre sign now can’t be partial if notes are on the same fret and even without the barre sign you can’t write the same fingering number to show the correct fingering.
It would be enough to be able to make the barre line draggable on the affected strings to solve the problem. VERY simple.

You can’t put multiple dots on the same string in chord diagrams.
You can’t create custom signs to use in chord diagrams.
You can’t put picking signs only on tab.
You can’t write picking signs note by note moving with the space bar.
You can’t select single or multiple fingerings on standard notation.
You can’t put multiple slur signs in tablature independently from standard notation. (for example, sliding a chord should have a slur sign on top of the chord and one on the bottom in tablature but not on standard notation)

And the list goes on and on.
These are all very common things in modern guitar notation, used on a daily basis, especially by teachers and transcribers. All these things were possible on Finale since 10+ years ago.
As I said before, maybe I miss something and I apologise, but I am pretty sure most of the things I am pointing out can’t be done.

I have written a post with suggestions months ago about many of these problems and it was obviously totally ignored.

And there are many other posts from other users asking for these features and others.

Maybe dorico team should hire a professional guitar player in its development team cause it looks like there’s none.

I am sorry to sound so arrogant but this thing is getting really upsetting.
There’s an attention for every little detail (and that’s why I purchased Dorico in the first place) even for things you will probably use once in a lifetime but almost never an improvement for guitar notation. Not to talk about the endless list of updates only to improve playback and sounds. This is supposed to be a notation software, not a midi file playback software.
I am not asking for all these things to be done but at least some of them every now and then.

I started using Dorico from version 4 and here I am spending another €100 for this update and nothing has been made for guitar notation.

Anyway, I appreciate a lot what has been done for chord symbols in Dorico 6. Thanks for that.

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“Everything Everywhere All at Once” unfortunately is just the title of a very good movie, but not the realistic roadmap of the Dorico development team… :wink:

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I wouldn’t call “all at once” one tiny single improvement in Dorico 5 in more than a year, which revealed to be something that made things worse (the ability to put a muted string inside a barre sign which made impossible to write the most common chords as in Dorico 4, so NOT an improvement).
And I am mainly asking to FIX problems, not to add new features.

Look, I’m a guitar player and I share much of the same gripes about some of the guitar features. But I won’t complain just after a release which is quite possibly the most significant in years with TONS of workflow enhancers I haven’t even begun to scratch the surface of…
The guitar stuff will come, and when it does, we’ll be just as blown away as we are now with the things they have delivered. Many things they have implemented this round people have clamored about for years as well!
Let’s be patient and gently remind the team of our niggles every once in a while, and all will be good. :face_blowing_a_kiss:

Benji

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As I said in my post, I am sorry to sound arrogant.
But I have been using Dorico for a few years, I have exposed bugs multiple times. I am pretty open to any workaround but some of them have NO workaround. Not being able to write correctly a simple Ami7 for my students doesn’t seem to me a tiny problem (considering it was possible in Dorico before). I also sell lessons and tablatures and people pay to have a decent and accurate PDF.
Do you really think giving back to users an option previously available is something that requires a big effort?
I have seen all kind of improvements (huge ones, and love them) but nothing for guitar in more than a year.

And if you read my post I have said at the end of it that I am just asking for little improvements now and then.

We cannot address every area of the application in any given development cycle. We certainly have experienced guitar players in the development and testing teams. Both of the developers who would typically work on guitar notation were fully occupied with the improvements to chord symbols for the entirety of the Dorico 6 development cycle. (And they are in fact still working on some of these details for 6.x maintenance releases.)

We will certainly come back around to working on guitar notation, of course, but here we are only 24 hours after the release of a major version, and it’s simply not possible for me to say when that will be. I hope that you will find many other improvements that are useful in the software despite the fact that we have not been able to improve chord diagrams in this release.

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Thanks for the reply. And I apologize again if my tone was arrogant. I got frustrated to see that certain problems remain. I will wait for the next updates in the hope that at least some bugs can be fixed.
I just hope you understand that not being able to write a correct diagram for an Ami7 is the equivalent of not being able to put a sustain pedal mark on a piano staff.
Or creating a basic library of commonly used diagrams without dozens of duplicates and unusable diagrams automatically generated.
That’s where the frustration comes from, seeing huge additions and improvements but seeing basic problems that affect the daily use of guitar notation left out,

I apologize again for my tone.

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I appreciate your apology, and I understand your frustration. I will discuss your Am7 issue with the developer responsible for chord diagrams when I see him next week.

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Thank you.
Since you will discuss that, just to be as clear as possible, these are common cases that are not possible (anymore):

Thank you

PS: the image of Ami7 in my original post was created with Dorico 4

I think it is in fact possible to get chords like this in Dorico 6:

However, it looks like there may be some bugs in the way we update the diagram in the dialog that make this more awkward than it should be. The main issue is that by default Dorico doesn’t automatically use chord diagram shapes with the thumb. Either you have to manually choose the thumb - by typing the fingering into the diagram - or you have to set this option in Note Input Options to allow the thumb to be used automatically:

However, it does look like the automatic use of the thumb in chord diagrams sometimes doesn’t work if the fingerings aren’t being displayed in the chord diagram editor. We’ll look into this. For the time being the best workaround is probably to manually type the “T” fingering onto the 6th-string dot before you create the barré, as I have done in my first screenshot above.

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Ok thank you…

But can you actually use the right fingering for this?
This chord is usually grabbed with second finger on the root and a 3-note barre with 3rd finger

Ah right. You can do this, yes:

It’s a bit fiddly though (which we’ll take a look at). The easiest way to do it is to mark the A-string as an open string while you create the barré, and then to convert the open-string symbol into an X. I realise that’s not ideal but hopefully that’s a workaround for the time being.

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Thank you!!!
I’ve been trying to do that for 7 months.
Now tell me you can write this too and I’ll tie myself to a tree so people can insult and humiliate me as they pass by:

In my defense, I asked for a solution to this problem seven months ago and got no response…

And one other question…

After you have done this:

If you type Fmi7, do you have that moveable shape you have just created available?

Hello.

When you see a guitar in an Orchestra Pit… then they will implement.

Although.. I’m only speaking as working guitarist with nearly 30 years of stage experience.

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Sorry I don’t get what you mean, if it’s a sarcasm/criticism to me or to Dorico.
Anyway, I am a guitarist with 35 years of experience too and I think Dorico is actually excellent for a classical or jazz professional notation (no tab or chord diagrams), as I have said before in this forum.
The problem is, again as I have pointed out before, there are still many problems regarding guitar notation with tablature and diagrams (so mainly instructional material and transcriptions, plus all modern stuff with bending, open tunings etc.)
Tablature and diagrams are essential today since it is what is needed 90% of the time. Every professional instructional book or transcription has tablature and diagrams in these days, as you already know. I just wish there was a little bit more attention to guitarists needs too just as for orchestral instruments (as you rightly pointed out).
Every chord type can be grabbed in literally hundreds of ways.

I write arrangements and orchestral music too and never had a real problem with that. I think dorico is fantastic for that.

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Richard - this is a bit off-topic, but it would be nice if the “Allow thumb” option prevented the “impossible” Proofreading warning (I’ve been using that “impossible” fingering for over 50 years - grin!)


ThumbWarning

No big problem, but maybe you can put it into the backlog…

Tom Kearney

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Hello Ludo.

This is no sarcasm toward you.
I’ve been using Steinberg products for about 20 years.
I know they have little love for modern style music and instrument scoring.
I own Many of Steinberg Flagship products, instruments, Interfaces and expansions.

I have always been a Steinberg audio products advocate.

But, I Won’t Buy or promote Dorico.
Steinberg does not care about guitarists and the notation method that guitarists have been using for the last 40 years…

Go and buy a copy of GuitarPro8 if you need tab with standard notation. I use GuitarPro for all the Tabs scoring for my students using a piece of software that understands that Tubulure is is the primary notation used by modern guitarists..

It’s even more insulting they added a low budget version of Dorico Scoring to Cubase in that last update.. So have to pay for things you dint want or ask for..

Cheers!!

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So, you do own a copy of Dorico? :thinking:

Ludovico, as far as I know it is AGAINst the forum etiquette to use capitals. Try to avoid this, especially in your thread title. Every visitor of the forum will spot the screaming, that’s just not a good thing. Try to fetch attention with a well formulated and inviting title. Response rates will be higher, visiting and using the forum will be and stay a pleasure.

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