# Note grouping: Dotted half inconsistent **URL:** \ **Category:** Dorico\ **Created:** [October 14, 2024, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586 "2024-10-14T20:46:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cparmerlee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@cparmerlee](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/cparmerlee)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/1 "2024-10-14T20:46:26Z")
Has a bug been introduced recently? I swear it never worked this way in the past. ![dotted half](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/2/f/1/2f121f466ddfe521c70aded393d4046efd7cf858.jpeg) In the above example, this is all there is in the score. Force Duration is never used. This is Dorico deciding when to break into 2 tied notes. In all cases, I want the 3-beat notes to be shown as dotted half. What am I doing wrong? There are note grouping options that seem to offer exactly that, but they are not working for me. ![GroupOpt 1](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/3/2/d/32d8772fb245333339fc77bd07ac07262c975a00.jpeg) ![GroupOpt 2](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/a/0/e/a0e78bec01a08ec462d19a217ef7eead09265ff3.jpeg) ![GroupOpt 3](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/f/d/c/fdcc422b17908db53dffd1da9955b5a246c5e7f2.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![James\_DeCaro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/aeb1de/32.png) [@James\_DeCaro](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/James_DeCaro)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/2 "2024-10-14T22:08:01Z")
I know the time signature is 4/4, but I wonder what if the meter is set for a conflicting grouping with your settings. I get this result by matching your settings exactly (which I think is what you want): ![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/5/e/8/5e8f042629c052002b0bc4fdb5877c7c1d0e2339.png) I can also get your result in the screen shot by altering the time signature to [2+2]/4. ![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/9/2/1/921f49eab976ac4daaffaf5b4fddce655d949862.png) ---
**Author:** ![FredGUnn](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/fredgunn/32/92088_2.png) [@FredGUnn](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/FredGUnn)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 11:24pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/3 "2024-10-14T23:24:33Z")
Did you create this in an earlier version (as in not the just released last week 5.1.60.2184 version), and create the time sig by clicking in the right panel? There was a bug with right panel time sigs that effectively “baked in” the Notation Options. If you haven’t already, update to the latest version, delete the meter signpost, reinput the meter with the popover and it will appear correctly. ---
**Author:** ![cparmerlee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@cparmerlee](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/cparmerlee)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2024, 1:49am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/4 "2024-10-15T01:49:41Z")
I installed 5.1.60 last week. I created that sample today from the hub using an empty file, adding a single flute. The 4/4 was already in place by virtue of creating the empty file from the hub.,I did not use the right panel at all. The version installed is 5.1.60.2187, audio engine 5.6.42.5. Are you saying there is a later version than this? ================= Just to be sure, I deleted the downloaded zip file from 5.1.60 last week, and did “Install Again.” It downloaded again, and the new ZIP was exactly the same size, so I assume that is the same code. I then launched Dorico and again created a new score from the hub with these 5 measures and still get the same result I showed in the first graphic in this thread. It isn’t the worst problem that ever way. It is still perfectly readable, but I’d prefer to get back to showing the dotted halfs consistently. I am uploading my test file in case anybody else gets a different result from that. [Dotted half.dorico](https://forums.steinberg.net/uploads/short-url/rjUui1tRSig5BSRkC3gD10clzyJ.dorico) (529.3 KB) ---
**Author:** ![cparmerlee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@cparmerlee](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/cparmerlee)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2024, 2:08am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/5 "2024-10-15T02:08:24Z")
> [@James\_DeCaro](#): > > I wonder what if the meter is set for a conflicting grouping with your settings I don’t really understand how to examine that. I get exactly the same (bad) result with all of these: 4/4, [2+2]/4, c, cutc. ---
**Author:** ![James\_DeCaro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/aeb1de/32.png) [@James\_DeCaro](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/James_DeCaro)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2024, 2:37am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/6 "2024-10-15T02:37:58Z")
The notation options you have set in this file appear to be different from what your first post noted. These are what I see: ![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/1/d/b/1dbd624d77672788b08881af9290373c3469c93e.png) ![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/4/6/3/4636e1538464172b935c2d6fe2771211f05fa036.png) Changing those and then re-adding the time signature 4/4 shifts the note grouping to match your intent (though I’m not sure why the addition of the time signature is necessary to get it to switch). [Dotted half.dorico](https://forums.steinberg.net/uploads/short-url/hva3nRfhLukzPtElkZAAY7oXWDh.dorico) (528.1 KB) ---
**Author:** ![cparmerlee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@cparmerlee](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/cparmerlee)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2024, 3:00am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/7 "2024-10-15T03:00:13Z")
Right you are. I had tried all those options, but as you correctly note, the options do not take effect until the meter mark is deleted and re-added. That surely cannot be correct. This is surely a bug. Those options should take effect as soon as the Apply button is clicked. Thanks for running this down. ---
**Author:** ![FredGUnn](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/fredgunn/32/92088_2.png) [@FredGUnn](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/FredGUnn)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2024, 3:06am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/8 "2024-10-15T03:06:49Z")
> [@James\_DeCaro](#): > > though I’m not sure why the addition of the time signature is necessary to get it to switch Yeah, I think there are still bugs here. The version history for the last update stated … ![timesig](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/7/e/e/7ee3ae694d14f48846c349eb62dc0ef3418693b1.png) … but I’m not sure that’s true. There definitely seems to be something buggy if hitting Apply doesn’t work and the time sig has to be re-input. ---
**Author:** ![cparmerlee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@cparmerlee](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/cparmerlee)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2024, 1:37am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/9 "2024-10-16T01:37:37Z")
Is somebody from Steinberg aware of this problem, or does it need to be reported to Support? ---
**Author:** ![dwlarson](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/dwlarson/32/1749_2.png) [@dwlarson](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/dwlarson)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2024, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/10 "2024-10-16T17:48:23Z")
I have encountered this in Dorico 5, and was hoping the latest update would solve it - but it is still present. Previous versions updated the note groupings immediately after hitting APPLY, but no longer. Time signatures have to be re-entered for the options to be displayed. This is a REAL problem when the meter changes often, as I have to re-enter every single one to get the proper note groupings displayed. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![cparmerlee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@cparmerlee](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/cparmerlee)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/11 "2024-10-18T02:12:43Z")
I did report this to US Support via email. ---
**Author:** ![dwlarson](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/dwlarson/32/1749_2.png) [@dwlarson](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/dwlarson)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 3:17am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/12 "2024-10-18T03:17:32Z")
The team will see it here sooner than a support ticket will get attention. Daniel or Ulf, can you confirm that this bug is still present? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Lanyon](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/richard_lanyon/32/51300_2.png) [@Richard\_Lanyon](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/Richard_Lanyon)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2024, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/13 "2024-10-19T14:53:48Z")
I’m just taking a look at this, but I can’t reproduce the problem in Dorico 5.1.60. What I’m trying is this: 1. create a new project from the Hub, using the “Empty” template with default settings (4/4 time signature, 32 bars, C major key signature) 2. add an instrument 3. add some notes 4. change the note grouping Notation Options I find that this works as expected. Are you doing something different? Would you be able to upload a Dorico Diagnostics file? ---
**Author:** ![cparmerlee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@cparmerlee](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/cparmerlee)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2024, 4:18pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/14 "2024-10-19T16:18:55Z")
I just repeated this same procedure from scratch. This time when I change the grouping option to “notate as a single note”, it reacts as expected. ![Grouping opt](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/c/d/1/cd1e21f0fbebcb5cb0d036b1e904f38c04d2bc4b.jpeg) However, when I do this procedure multiple times without shutting Dorico down, the problem appears intermittently. I can’t really find a pattern that produces the problem every time. It may be related to completely shutting down Dorico, or it may relate to what the note grouping settings were by default before I changed them. FWIW, measure 2 always comes out as a single dotted half, regardless of the settings. ![half bar m2.](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/6/b/0/6b03eaf6c766728b50971c6581d1bbb3dd3631c3.jpeg) Shouldn’t M2 be two notes with these settings? ![half bar options](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/5/7/7/57765062fcb34621592ba8a00b4bd02899ee9d6c.jpeg) My diag file is here: [Box](https://app.box.com/s/8rpwe0jsaplpyohxqcpm16l6uzm377dv) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Lanyon](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/richard_lanyon/32/51300_2.png) [@Richard\_Lanyon](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/Richard_Lanyon)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2024, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/15 "2024-10-19T16:56:01Z")
> [@cparmerlee](#): > > FWIW, measure 2 always comes out as a single dotted half, regardless of the settings. There’s a separate control for that, in the Syncopation section: ![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/7/0/9/709aaa33ce491dae7b9afd4fd2a639235cdd34b6.png) ---
**Author:** ![dwlarson](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/dwlarson/32/1749_2.png) [@dwlarson](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/dwlarson)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 11:26pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/16 "2024-10-28T23:26:25Z")
@Richard_Lanyon , I have a file which stubbornly refuses to consolidate those notes into dotted half notes. One does – once – in one part, but none of the other occasions will consolidate. Could I send it to you privately to see what’s going on? It is an XML import from Sibelius, so… Oh, and to get that one note to change, I had to re-enter the time signature for the settings to take effect. Same thing if I changed settings back – nothing would happen unless I re-entered the time signature. ---
**Author:** ![pianoleo](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/pianoleo/32/1609_2.png) [@pianoleo](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/pianoleo)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 11:28pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/17 "2024-10-28T23:28:15Z")
If it’s an XML import, do check that your Preferences \> MusicXML Import wasn’t set to respect notated values. ---
**Author:** ![dwlarson](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/dwlarson/32/1749_2.png) [@dwlarson](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/dwlarson)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/18 "2024-10-28T23:30:46Z")
They are not. And the notes don’t show Force Duration turned on when selected. ---
**Author:** ![FredGUnn](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/fredgunn/32/92088_2.png) [@FredGUnn](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/FredGUnn)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/19 "2024-10-28T23:35:20Z")
Was the project created in 5.1.60? If not, did you try re-importing to see if you get the same behavior in the current version? If you do, can you cut the file down to a single bar the exhibits this behavior, and post it for us to check out? ---
**Author:** ![pianoleo](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/pianoleo/32/1609_2.png) [@pianoleo](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/pianoleo)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586/20 "2024-10-28T23:43:45Z")
I’ve definitely seen situations in which imported time signatures don’t interact with Notation Options like Dorico native time signatures. [Next page](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/note-grouping-dotted-half-inconsistent/943586.md?page=2)