Note spacing for other note values?

Dorico
#1

In “Product B”, you can set the note spacing value for a particular reference note duration. In Dorico, the Note Spacing value is for crotchet/quarter note only.

If I’m writing in 4/2, and want a minim to have similar spacing as the same passage in 4/4 (with halved note values), do I:

a) Do nothing?
b) Halve the Spacing value?
c) Divide by the Spacing Ratio?

#2

I would suggest you create a Note Spacing Change where you reduce the ideal gap for a crotchet to something like 2 4/5 spaces.

#3

Thanks, Daniel. So, for a general formula, that looks like option C.

#4

I remember how handy it was in Product B to be able to couple any note values to a spacing value. This made it possible to set an eighth triplet to the same spacing value as a sixteenth and thereby achieve the ‘proper’ notation for, for example, Jesu Joy of Man’s Desiring, in which the 16ths should be ‘tripletised’ and vertically align with the eighths. A lot of composers were still doing this well into the 19th century, like Chopin and Schumann. What would the best way be to do this in Dorico? Set out a bar with the 16ths manually adjusted and then copy and repitch?

#5

Vaughan, just set up a bar with a 3:2 triplet, then hide the bracket and number. All the tripletised quavers/eighths will align correctly, automatically.

#6

And please use the proper names for competitive products. The reasons for Products A, B, etc. were reasonable for comparisons made by the developers during development but have little or no purpose now. So long as one is not slandering a product with false info, there should be no legal liability.

#7

I think Vaughan meant how to align a triplet of 8th notes with a dotted 8th + 16th.

You can’t make “2/3 + 1/3” match up with “3/4 + 1/4” with the options available in Dorico, without manual adjustment.

Of course it was written this way to avoid the need for brackets etc over “1/4 + 1/8” tuplets, when beams are just as effective and quicker to write.
BWV147.png

#8

You can’t make “2/3 + 1/3” match up with “3/4 + 1/4” with the options available in Dorico, without manual adjustment.

You can. But it’s a bit tricky: You need to create two layers of Tuplets: Under a “normal” Triplet you create one 3:4 and one 1:2(!) tuplet in semiquavers. Then hide all tuplets, and it’s done. When this rhythm is entered once, you can copy it by typing “R” and enter new pitches. No manual adjustment needed.
Dotted Notes and Triplets.zip (1.63 MB)

#9

That’s brilliant but I’m afraid I can’t reproduce it. It took me awhile to find out how to enter an independent time signature in the help file. By entering 9/8,6 for the violin 1 part, you’re basically entering an anacrusis bar, right? When I enter this, the flag shows 9/8 (e,3+3+3). Why? Well, that only works for the first bar and it also breaks the barlines between the staves. I’d gone through the whole process of copying this to the other bars and hiding the time signatures before I realised I could place an independent 3/4 in the second violin 1 bar and hide this, after which the barlines lined up again.
Then the tuplets. You start the second violin with a ‘normal’ triplet but how do you enter a dotted eighth and a sixteenth as a triplet when it’s not? I was unable to create a nested tuplet in the same spot. Would you mind explaining how you did it?

#10

I admit, it’s really difficult.
Concerning ime signatures you’re totally right.

Now, how to input the tuplets:

  1. Invoke the caret, choose eighths (5)
  2. Invoke the tuplet-popover, enter 3:2 (or 3:2e)➛ You’ll get three eighth-rests under a triplet
  3. go to the first eighth-rest, choose sixteenth (4), invoke tuplet-popover, enter 3:4 (or 3:4x) ➛ You’ll get three 1/16-rests under a 3:4 bracket.
  4. go to the last eighth-rest, choose sixteenth (4) agin, invoke the tuplet-popover, enter 1:2 (or 1:2x) ➛ You’ll get one 1/16-rest under a 1:2 bracket.

Now you have a 3:2-bracket in the top layer and two brackets (3:4 and 1:2) in the second layer.

  1. Go to the first 1/16-rest under the 3:4-bracket, choose dotted eighths and enter the note.

  2. Go to the 1/16-rest under the 1:2-bracket, choose 1/16 and enter the note.

  3. Select all, filter tuplets, hide brackets and numbers.

  4. Select both notes you have entered and beam then together.

Many steps. But as I already wrote, you have to do them only once. Afterwards you can copy this rhythm as often as you need.

I hope, that this ist helpful.

Ben

#11

I just thought over what I wrote above. It’s a bit easier, when you don’t invoke the caret and just specify the referring note-values of every tuplet.

  1. Select any 1/4-rest.
  2. Invoke tuplet-popover, type “3:2e”
  3. Select the first 1/8-rest, invoke tuplet-pop, type “3:4x”
  4. Select the last 1/8-rest, invoke tuplet-pop, type “1:2x”
    Now you have 3+1 semiquaver rests under nested tuplets. Now you can invoke the caret.
  5. Go to the first rest and enter a dotted eighth g (or what you like)
  6. Go to the last rest and enter a sixteenth f# (or what you like)

Then hide the tuplet brackets and numbers. If necessary, beam the notes together.

No too difficult, is it? The only problem is, that you have to do it BEFORE you enter the passage in the 2nd violin. Changing the rhythm afterwards is much more difficult.

Ben

#12

Thank you very much, Ben. I’m still getting used to having to define both the outer and the nested tuplets entirely before entering the notes. Your solution works very well.