Nuage question

Early yet for Nuage based on the Q2 release date, but does a basic Nuage system require the dsp/Dante card and I/O, or can it run via ethernet to Nuendo (Cubase too?) as a straight controller, with 3rd party audio I/O?

That may be a loaded question as I suppose it is possible it would require the Dante card for control data, but still work with 3rd party ASIO interfaces.

I think the key to Nuage making any headway here in the US will be it’s flexibility - i.e. if we can buy a master section alone, or a fader pack, and just run that with Nuendo/Cubase, it could sell fairly well. Early pricing predictions look high for that intermediate market though ($18k for a base system, but I assume that includes a master section, fader pack, Dante card, 8-I/O and Nuendo 6?). That would have direct competition with an MC Pro, so not a slam dunk decision for even Nuendo studios since most run ProTools as well: Nuage being proprietary protocol(?) with Nuendo and HUI with PT vs. MC Pro and Eucon with both Nuendo and PT (and a few others).

Thanks.

If I understand what was said earlier correctly then the Dante is not required.

Also, in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VSEM9F5LGo

we’re told (again acually) that we can indeed buy individual buckets and don’t have to buy a package. And speaking of packages, or “solutions”, the target price according to the guy (if my German serves me) is 20-60k EURO for “system solutions”, from small to large.

I wonder where that puts the price on a fader section, or master…

I would love a English sub-titled version of this video.

Here’s a poor translation. Someone correct it if it’s wrong:

“Hello my name is Sebastian Rodentz I am the product manager at Yamaha for the Nuage system and Nuendo something something post production.”

I’ll skip to the interesting parts…:

@ 50 seconds…

Interviewer: "You have here 3 ‘wings’, if that’s what you call it…

SR: “yep”

I: “Do you always need three or?”

SR: “No the system is built to be modular which means I can use each unit by itself, there are essentially two units, the fader and the master. I can use only the master if I have a small edit station or maybe a small mix room where I might not need faders, and I also have channel control on the touch screen, I have eq, I can control the level, it’s all possible [to do] from the touch screen… Or I only use the fader when I have a small mix station where I might not need the control unit, or as I said you can combine them. What we have here is two faders and one master. But I can also built out, expand it to three faders and one master. Then I have 48 faders to use, we have now 32, and one can then use them together.”

He says something about Nuendo 6 being available in the first quarter and then something about the second quarter that I couldn’t quite make out. Perhaps he’s talking about the hardware.

The interviewer then asks why one should buy it and he responds saying that this is really the system is the first where hardware/software basically feels the same and how integration is really tight. He says the channels sort of flow into the screen and I believe he said that the screens are connected as usual to the computer.

At roughly 3 minutes he shows how you can focus on one channel, and then two, and thereby use more encoders for the channel(s). I guess that’s sort of a “focus” mode if you will.

Then he comments again about the similarity in design between hardware/software, how the buttons look the same and how working on it is faster and you only have to learn one “item” rather than both controller and software.

Next is a short description of what’s new in Nuendo which starts off with the tighter integration with Nuage. Then talks about the channel strip and then hide/show channels in the mixer, metering etc.

5:30"

I: “Can you then [somehow?] already tell us the price of what one ‘wing’, with software, will roughly be?”

SR: “We have at the moment still no price for the individual components, but we’re saying at the moment, uh, that at the moment it’s clear that the system, uh, that a system solution will start at 20,000 and go up to 60,000.

I don’t think he said which currency so it’s probably a safe bet that it’s Euro.

Btw, here’s a free tip to Steinberg:

Get access to (buy?) a Pro Tools rig and install Nuage and shoot a video showing what you can do on PT with it. In the US market that’ll probably be important to a lot of people. If one can at least get a decent mileage out of it on PT even if it’s HUI then it can offset the risk of buying Nuage at least a bit.

You’re welcome.

Thanks Lydiot!

It is greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the translation.

And a second free tip - not to harp on the price, but I think it of value to reiterate what I and others stated in the other thread: Nuage will not sell in the US at $25k to start (assuming $20k euro, current exchange).

Not when we can get a used D-Command, fader pack and XMon for $15k (posted a few days ago on another pro audio forum).

Not when an MC-Pro can be had for $15-17k, and offers highly customizable Eucon control of ProTools, Nuendo and most anything else.

A lot of Avid/PT gear is surprisingly cheap on the used market right now (not exactly great for Avid I would think, but also not a good sign for competitors trying to maintain high price points either). People are looking to cut costs and downsize, not make risky investments, and that isn’t going to change for probably the next 3-5 years.

My guess is here in the US you would sell 10x the units at somewhere around a $5k per module (bringing in recording studios, VO houses, composers), or sell a fraction of the number of $25k units to upstart post rooms, that will end up on the used gear market for 1/5 of that in 2-3 years when those studios have to go with Avid’s next Eucon controller to support our ProTools systems and clients. I’m hearing the same from colleagues in LA post and other non-US markets.

Well, I don’t think the MC-Pro makes for a good comparison seeing that it’s got only 4 faders, but be that as it may I think you’re right in general.

I hope that what they mean by “system solution” is at least a bucket plus I/O and a sync device. If that’s the case then one would expect a bucket to be a good deal less than 20k. Much more reasonable of course, but still a lot of cash for a proprietary solution more or less. At that point the 16 channel Nuage could be compared to the Avid C24 which I’ve seen for less than 10k.

Hi,

I’m pretty sure he’s including Nuendo 6 software in those prices he mentions. And that alters it a bit.
(If they aren’t giving N6 away with the board).

Pål

Ah, of course.

But remember those are euro prices. The base 20k works out to over $26k USD. Even subtracting out Nuendo it’s more than a DCommand ES or MC Pro.

Right, but some companies have a tendency to just “switch the sign” as it were and keep the number. So e299 becomes $299. Don’t ask why. Perhaps it has to do with marketing. I certainly won’t count on the prices being “equal” in the sense that they’d follow a monetary conversion rate.

Yes! But can you really compare? The MC Pro is great, but have only 4 faders.
The D-Command base unit isn’t worth a shit IMHO. It is the D-Control that is good.

P

I think you guys are getting hung up on 1:1 feature comparisons rather than the reality of how most (successful) studios make investment decisions in here in the US.

Yes I can compare. With Nuage we are talking about somewhere around 10k Euros to $12k USD per module.
The master has no faders, and the fader pack has no transport/shuttle control. So you need both for a basic studio. $25k.

If price is going to be aggressively competitive enough, you have to pick one or the other applications.

The MC Pro layout can include transport and enough faders to get the job done; and it is Eucon compatible with ProTools, Nuendo, Digital Performer, Logic, etc. Customization is well beyond anything else with custom commands and graphics on smart switches, etc. There is a reason you can get a few faders with an MC Pro, despite being edit-room focused. What’s the reasoning for a Nuage master pack with no faders? To make you buy a fader pack too, just to have a few faders for an edit room.

SmartAV Tango has both for around $9500, even if it is a little more limited on hardware switches. That’s probably the best HUI solution for the money.

Nuage is basically a proprietary solution for a DAW (Nuendo) that is on the endangered species list in the US.

Maybe Steinberg/Yamaha really aren’t interested in marketing and selling Nuendo in the US. Maybe Europe and Asia are their focus. That certainly seems to be the case, but of course that’s their prerogative.

Anyway, just my opinion. Nuage is likely many months away from hitting the streets. There is no knowing how good it really is in use. Might also sell really well, esp. if by some chance, Avid drops native, 3rd party driver, support for ProTools.

I don’t agree with that at all.

First of all we don’t know what the price will be yet, so it’s all speculation. Secondly you’re pitting an arbitrary parameter against another. If you say that the Nuage fader bucket doesn’t work by itself because it doesn’t have transport/shuttle then someone else will say the MC-Pro doesn’t cut it because it doesn’t have 16 faders. You’re comparing apples and oranges.

But ok, suppose we do compare the two. If I bought both the Nuage fader and control section I’d still need a keyboard regardless. The space bar works wonders for play/stop and the numeric keypad can provide more options. I actually bought a Contour Shuttle for about $100 and it does what the jog/shuttle wheel does on the MC-pro… for a bit less. If I have to choose between 16 faders and a contour Shuttle or 4 faders and a built-in jog/shuttle the choice is pretty simple for me. And by the way, one can buy a programmable keyboard for not that much money and get plenty of customized keys including macros etc. So from a certain standpoint the MC-Pro most certainly is overpriced.

But again, we’ll know more soon I suppose. I’m just hoping that by “system solution” they mean Nuendo + 2 buckets + sync + i/o. If that’s the case the bucket price would probably be pretty reasonable… then again…

That’s obviously a possibility. Another is that it’d have been too expensive to take that control section and added 4 faders to it. Not that I would have minded that.

Well, if they can’t get the Eucon license for the controller then they’re stuck just like all other manufacturers, aren’t they? There’s absolutely nothing that can be done about that. So any possible configuration controller will by default be “proprietary” because it’ll be tight with Cubendo and anything else will get HUI.

I hope they’ll do well because we benefit if Avid gets some competition, even if it’s mostly abroad. A stronger competitor is a good thing. So let’s hope that they price it right and get to sell some abroad.

If we are to speculate!

Since it all is rumours. I’ve heard that a base model with fader and master will cost 20K€.

P

On the end of this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VSEM9F5LGo Sebastians Rodens for Yamaha says that basic system will cost from 20k to 60k Euro.

Please note that I do not speak German very well - If I am not wrong, please correct me.

Regards

Tomas Bilek

:wink:

fourth post, december 2nd…

thanks though…

Sorry for duplicates - I totally overlooked it.