With Cubase 14 there is limited session compatibility now. For example, you can no longer open new Cubase 14 sessions on anything less than the last v13 update. Obviously this is huge problem if you collaborate with people not on the latest versions.
Is there any plan to address in Nuendo this via the possibility to backwards save in the previous session format? There also seems to be no warning about this in the software when creating a new session.
Pro Tools allows you the option to backwards save into their previous session formats if needed so am hoping Nuendo will do the same.
Iām not sure how that would be a solution as prior versions of Nuendo canāt open DAWProject files. Regardless, Steinberg changed this, Steinberg is the one who needs to offer the functionality to backwards-save. When you work across a large team in a collaborative environment it quickly becomes an issue.
Correct. New projects in C14 will not open in anything less than the latest C13 update.
Itās understandable if some data is lost (as might be expected) as that can be committed. In this case the sessions simply wonāt open. People who work more in isolation likely wonāt encounter this but in a collaborative environment with different people on different versions for whatever reason itās an issue.
For example, if I create a session in v14 and send it to a collaborator who is on v12, v11, v10 (for whatever reasons) they will simply be unable to load it. A backwards session combability save is much needed and hopefully there in Nuendo 14.
It would definitely be great if SB can keep general compatibility and let it just break this one function. So if you need to share projects with older versions you can simply either not use it or bounce the events before sharing.
I donāt think they do openā¦ Itās about a new file format (64 bit something something), as far as I understand itā¦ I think I saw some warning message mentioned on the Cubase side in here.
What I do in Cubase (I work with different people with dif versions), is to start all new projects in C12 first. Then working in C14 will keep the old file formatā¦ and it will open in many versions back.
PS. I have not yet worked very much in C14 (finishing up some projects in C12/N12)ā¦ Iām not exactly sure. But this is a thing to look a bit further into before diving head first into Cubase/Nuendo 14 IMO
Okā¦ Herās what I found (C14, but Iāll guess that the same will apply for N14):
"In Cubase/Nuendo versions newer than 13.0.20, the project file size is not limited anymore. This is the corresponding information taken from the Release Notes:
With Cubase/Nuendo 13.0.30 we introduced a change to the project file format to support much larger file sizes. Cubase/Nuendo will now detect automatically whether to use the previous (32-bit) format or the new (64-bit) project file format. When the project file size requires the 64-bit format to be used, you will be informed via a dialogue.
64-bit project files will only be compatible with Cubase/Nuendo 13.0.30 or higher. It will not be possible to open 64-bit projects in earlier versions (i.e., 13.0.20) or generations (i.e., Cubase/Nuendo 12). Once a project file is saved in 64-bit format, it cannot be converted back to 32-bit."
" Cubase 14 also introduces a 64-bit project file format, enabling project files larger than 2 GB. This improvement addresses limitations encountered with audio extensions and certain third-party instruments that store data directly within project files. Projects saved in Cubase 14 will default to this 64-bit āRIF2ā format, compatible only with Cubase and Nuendo versions 13.0.30 or newer. Projects saved in the older 32-bit format will remain in that format unless specific conditions are met, as detailed in the Help Center article."
If itās like Cubase 14 then thatās incorrect. New projects started in v14 will no longer open on anything less than the latest v13 update.
Correct. However there is ZERO indication that youāre about to change project formats when starting a new project and when collaborating with other users on different versions it can quickly become a nightmare.
Exactly. Zero indication that this is going to happen and no ability to backwards save. Itās honestly a nightmare for the collaborative scenario I am typically in. Really hope Nuendo 14 addresses this.
Fair point.
This is a hard and particular dilemma for a developer though. If they donāt offer 64 bit project files, it also limits collaborative workflows (large projects with many tracks and personell).
I think a warning message is a minimum requirement when a user starts going from 32 to 64bit filetypes.
Maybe they can do more, but iām not sure what.
One option I can imagine is to have a preference that excludes the use of 64bit project files.
This way a team of varied Nuendo version users can keep new features and not lose compatibility.
Thereās something to be said for a) warning the user that this is going to happen and b) offering the ability to backwards save. Clearly if you can start a project in v12 and then continue to work on the project in all versions it shouldnāt be a technical hurdle that canāt be solved. Definitely not really an issue if youāre working more in isolation but we have people in the wider team on older versions for whatever reasons and this became a technical hurdle that became challenging to solve. Itās now something we have to be aware of and if someone new is integrated into the team itās more education about what not to do. Once itās in that new format thereās no going back.
That was clear and understood. My point was merely: allowing bigger sessions (perhaps as an option like i mentioned) makes collaboration easier on big projects as well.
Some real life info from someone that uses both Cubase 12 and Cubase 14:
I imported my main template from C12 into C14 and adjusted it there a bit to my liking ā the file remains a RIFF file, ie it can still be opened in C12.
Any old projects from C12 that I opened in C14 and modified there can still be opened in C12 afterwards.
If you collaborate with people on older versions, make sure to start with a RIFF project rather than a RIF2. How? As I said, I imported a template from C12 into C14 and start my work from this template.
The automatic transformation from RIFF to RIF2 will happen, afaik, when you reach a project file size of 4 GB. As soon as you pass this barrier there is no way to keep compatible to N12 or ealier versions. For a good reason: the project would get corrupted in N12 anyway, as N12 cannot handle project file sizes >4GB. In other words: by making the project file bigger than 4GB you have broken backwards compatibility already.
How can you identify a RIFF from a RIF2 project file?
If you load the project file into a text editor, the 4 first characters of the file show you what format it is:
So if I know that my projects are never going to exceed 4GB will they remain in RIFF format if I always create them in a pre-N14 version before opening them in N14?
Thatās fine if you are dealing with the same person on the same computer. Itās not always possible to instruct someone else in part of a larger team to always start a project from a v12 template. They do what they want and then the next person in the team who might have to work on things now canāt open the session.
I still maintain this is a bit of a showstopper in a collaborative environment with no indication when starting new projects that they will be incompatible, and no possibility to backwards-save. Reality is all projects our team has worked on have never hit the session size limit but weāve now been forced into a brick wall dealing with compatibility issues.
Let me be more specific: If I take a project (under 4GB) started in N7 - N12, open it and edit/save it in N13 or N14 will it remain in the original RIFF format or will it be converted to the new RIF2 format?
