Hi!
I am a long-time user of Nuendo (since V2), and during that time I have mostly worked with sound for feature films, mainly focusing on dialogue edit and re-recording mixing. Through the years, I have noted some feature requests that would help immensely with everyday sound work. I have highlighted the requests that I believe are the most needed improvements.
Auditioning events in DOP should be with the same clip volume as in the sequencer.
-If you have an event with -20dB in the sequencer, it still auditions in DOP as if it was set to 0 dB. The volume could be extremely high in comparison to its playback volume in the sequencer.
This can be extremely dangerous when mixing on a dubbing stage. Sometimes my ears bleed because of this, and I find myself constantly having to adjust the volume slider in the DOP window. Most of the time, I just want to hear the sound at the same volume as I am working with in the project.
One possible solution to this issue could be that the volume slider in DOP follows the event volume.
I can not stress the importance of this feature request enough.
Autoplay option in DOP, or the possibility to Audition with a key command.
-I use DOP at least a thousand times every day. I always want to listen to the clip I am processing anyway. Having this option would save a lot of time!
It would be great to have the possibility to pin the DOP window to the lower zone in the sequencer. It is very frustrating to constantly have to move the window around or open/close it.
DOP auditioning post track inserts.
-I would love to have an option to listen to the event I am processing in DOP through the inserts chain on the track it is placed on. Maybe you could add a toggle button for that.
Routing of the DOP signal.
-When working with theatrical surround mixes, I need to know how the processed clip will sound in the speaker where it is supposed to be played back. When adjusting an EQ on a dialogue clip, it sounds different when it is auditioned in L/R speakers instead of the center.
Which feature would you like to see the most?
Please run a discussion!
Audition of clips at the same level in DOP as in the sequencer
agree with clip gain audition. this is probably the main reason why it is “not convenient” to do any serious dialogue editing in nuendo, and why my editors use the “other” daw.
and if i may add, creating reverb tails in DOP is a disaster (bounce that audio, open empty DOP window with no selected event, enter tail value, close DOP window, select desired event, open DOP window, apply reverb and pray to god that you entered the right tail value, or else do that whole proces again…)
Yeah, I totally understand why they would use the “other” software for that reason. The predictable DOP volume request is more than simply a feature request. The inconsistent volume is a health issue, which could provoke tinnitus and nervous breakdown.
Yes YES. The countless times my ears have been murdered after auditioning a clip-gained clip in DOP. I agree with all of these, but especially number 4 and 1. I can not understand why this is something you still have to be careful of when working with DOP.
It seems like many of you agree with request number one.
I wonder what the Steinberg team thinks? I really hope that this can be implemented sooner than later! Our poor ears will definitely thank you in the long run!
Yeah, its another issue here. Steinberg people are rarely here. Not a good comunication going here between us and developers/people in charge of feature decisions.
I mean nuendo is a beast of a product, pt is years behind. We just need some basic post stuff sorted out (aaf, mxf metadata, dop).
Please steinberg, communicate with us here.
and also make DOP window with "toggle switches"of something so we can enable or desable these “features”.
because sometimes we actualy need to preveiew raw recording
So Nuendo is quite powerful and you can actually assign a generic controller to a knob on a lot of outboard gear. So I have made a separate knob for the listener. I think the idea of maybe linking the listener and control room volume knob could be a good idea to work around this separate volume issue. Keep in mind that it is also reliant on the source material being fed through it. Is it Nuendo’s fault if I have to turn the listener up 18db because the audio was recorded super low to hear the processing i’m doing and then get murdered by a mastered SFX file. ?
Maybe option to route it through the mixer channel settings is an interesting idea that I like, so in essence you are hearing your source processing and how it sounds through the chain at the same time, but this needs to be an option only, because there will be times that we need to hear what its doing to the source only, it is a clip even processor not an INSERT>.
There is also separate fader for media bay to keep that volume softer if needed also.
And you can toggle your PLAY BAR between DOP and Timeline play, which is like a keycommand already
That a good idea! However, I think in 99.9% of cases you would like to listen to the clips in DOP at the same level as in the sequencer. If not, we all have a volume knob at our hands.
I think the best way is to link the clip volume with the volume slider directly in DOP. If it is linked with control room, there will be a myriad of other problems later on.
I dont get your question btw. I mean, if you are going to listen to a super low recording, you would still like to hear it at the same volum in DOP as in the sequencer, am I not right? And yeah, going from super low recording to a mastered SFX file has nearly killed my ears plenty of times. I have spent the last week mixing a film at the dubbing stage, and it has happened at least 20 times in one week. My ears are so tired right now. Steinberg, please do something about this soon!
And, yes, the listen trough inserts needs to be an option only!
well like a lot of things Nuendo, I don’t think we are using it in the same way because I don’t fully think we are having the exact same issue. Basically the preview volume control in the control room is its own separate volume fader, So you can assign it to a generic controller or keep it very low at all times. This is what I do, and only turn it up when I need more volume and then turn it back down knowing that a lot of sounds (especially mastered) could be super loud (especially when monitoring at Theatrical volume on a dub stage) versus say a dialogue recording from the production. You can also assign the preview volume to the headphone bus if that helps and then assign that to another set of speakers and or use the headphone volume fader to watch for it and keep the volume independent. Hope you find a working solution for now if they don’t address anything. Routing it through the POST mixer phase may be the solution I think as an option - but I will still want to hear the source sound as well when needed to follow the proper chain of sound
We probably all use Nuendo in different ways.
I work mostly with feature documentary films, where extensive offline processing is needed on almost every clips. The raw material varies a lot in volume, and that is why a consistent auditioning in DOP is so important for me. Efficiency and predictability are two factors that are important for my work. In the heat of the moment, I cant be bothered with having to check either audition level in the DOP window, or the listen level in control room. I do not think that having a physical fader assigned to either of those volume controls will help with efficiency or predictability. Most of the time, I just want to apply DOP with the same volume as it will be presented when pressing play in the sequencer.
However, when you have a physical controller attached to the listen slider in control room, you would still have the same flexibility to turn the volume up or down, only with more predictability of the volume in the first place.
Btw, what do you mean by routing it trough the POST mixer phase?
I have found some solutions to the list of requests that works.
I have made a macro for all plugins that I use the most. The macro consists of several commands.
For example, Pressing alt+2 opens Pro Q-3, the DOP window, enabling space key as auditioning shortcut, and changes control room downmix preset to mono, and enables the dim button.
After doing my edits i press alt tab to apply, which changes the downmix preset back to 7.1 turn dim off ,and closes the DOP window. This workaround enables me to listen to the dialogue in the same speaker as when playing trough the project, and saves my ears from potential extreme loud sounds. However, it does not work with the processes that are either in stereo and surround. I probably need to make own macros for those processes. I just wish that DOP could follow the track configuration.
I understand that the volume of each track could complicate things even more, but when working with dialogue on films, it is always much easier to do the volume with clip gain than track gain.
I hope all this clears up my workflow and issues. It is complicated to explain with text, so Just let me know if something is unclear.
to simplify to people who dont understand (and steinberg also),
DOP preview is currently PRE clip gain, we need it to be POST clip gain.
actualy i dont see any good profesional reason why it is PRE clip gain…
Yeah I think as Soundcage just said if there was an option for POST Clip gain and what I mean with routing is that it would be heard through the exact configuration of sound as it would be when going through the track - that could help a lot, I still think there is value to hear the source material at times for the kind of work I’m doing, which is Feature films and games so a lot of DOP as well.
example:
doing a dialogue edit. i have a audio that was recorded at about -38 lufs (sound guy just didnt do the job right).
now, when i clip gain it to reach -23lufs i hear that there is a bad 7k whistle there.
so, now i apply dop (post filter plugin from steinberg), and preview is so low that i need to crank the speakers up . so you know what happens when you forget to lower the speakers down…