"Octave" clef: G-clef for tenor voices

Will Dorico support the “octave G-clef” commonly used for tenor voices? By this I mean the G-clef with a small “8” glyph attached below, which marks the second line of the staff as the G which is a perfect fourth below middle C? (Similarly, the F-clef that marks the fourth line as the F a perfect 12th below middle C, the G clef that marks the second line as the G a perfect fourth above middle C?)

I am not referring to any transposition, or treating these as transposing instruments. I mean a concert-pitch, non-transposing tenor part, as is common in choral music, with middle C on the third space.

Yes, absolutely, Dorico supports clefs that show a number above or below them to indicate that the instrument is written one or more octaves higher or lower than it sounds.

Isn’t it a peculiar convention? Tenor voices use the octave clef, but neither double basses nor piccolo flutes ever do, and guitars sometimes do, and sometimes don’t.

In any case, you can create these clefs at will in Dorico, and you’ll get an octave clef by default when you add a tenor voice instrument to a player.

Thank you.

I’ve been through this discussion with the other software, that I’m currently using, and I don’t want anything that indicates anything written an octave away from where it sounds. That sounds like it’s an octave transposition. I want a clef that says that the third space is middle C, and notes on the staff with that clef are written exactly where they sound.

I fear that this may not be merely a matter of semantics. I want a non-transposing tenor part, in which the third space is a written middle C, and it sounds as a middle C. No transposing, no sounding an octave away from where it’s written. The inner spiral of the clef marks the G just below middle C; G3. A clef that’s between the C alto clef and the C tenor clef, but looks similar to a G clef.

You mean one note away from the usual tenor C-clef? What musical context uses one of them?

Unless I’m misunderstanding you, then you should have no problems with Dorico in this regard. Clefs do not themselves perform any kind of octave transposition: they merely show you the pitch of a specific note relative to a stave line. So in the case of the G clef, which shows you that G is on the second line up from the bottom of the stave (and C is thus either on the first ledger line below the stave, or in the third space up from the bottom of the stave), that’s all it does.

The question (if I understand it) is which of the C’s is C4, middle C: can one re-clef an alto choral part for tenor I and have it automatically appear in the correct octave transposition?

Changing the clef will not change the sounding pitch of the music: it will only change the written pitch.

Why will it change the written pitch? If I write a C4 (middle C), one ledger line below the treble staff, and then change to bass clef, the written pitch should remain C4 (middle C), which is one ledger line above the bass staff. The position of the note on the staff will change, but neither the written pitch nor the sounding pitch should change.

I do believe this is what was meant. The visual position will change, not the actual pitch. I would imagine.

The “Octave G clef” doesn’t transpose anything down an octave. But, although it has obvious cosmetic similarity to the treble clef, it fixes the location of a DIFFERENT pitch - tenor G - on the second staff line. Sibelius treated it as a treble clef and relied on a special transposed Tenor Voice instrument to make it work. Almost like saying the bass clef was really a treble clef and supplying instruments sounding an octave plus a sixth too low to go on it! This was the cause of much confusion, and regularly had to be explained on the support forum. I’m sure Dorico will handle this more elegantly!