Octave sign hook

Is it possible to omit the hook from an octave sign? I have the hook length set to 0 in the Engraving Options and also to 0 for a specific octave sign with no result. The hooks remain.
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I’m not in front of a computer just now, but if you grab the square handle at the bottom of the hook, is it nudgeable with Alt/Opt-Up/Down? If not, what about the square hand at the top of the hook?

The hook goes up and down in Engrave mode by using the box but stops at a certain point and refuses to go farther thus leaving one with a hook of three dots.

Curiously, if I keep the local property set to O, but change from dotted to dashed lines, the hook disappears, even when the Advanced Option has the hook set to 1, just as one would expect since a local property should override a global one. So it appears to me to be an issue of using dots instead of dashes for octave lines.

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Yes, I confirm that neither the setting nor the property will shorten the hook of a dotted line to less than 1 space. (I never noticed this because I always use a dashed line.)

Thanks, Mark. Your confirmation is very helpful.

I’m curious why you want to remove the hook altogether, John. That’s not something I can recall ever having seen.

It’s so I would be able to add on other dotted lines to create octave lines of various shapes as necessary. The following example shows dashes, but I prefer dots:

Ravel Scarbo

In a different thread regarding octave lines I mentioned that Dorico needs a more sophisticated way to handle octave lines, somewhat like slurs, with control points to be added by the user and moved around as necessary to be able to create all the various uniquely-shaped octave lines. At present, Dorico cannot create even a single octave line that slopes at an angle determined by the user. The present system of predetermined sloping lines with shoulders added over the last note (which is non-standard) is not adequate. And the added sloping corners are also not standard in many situations. Straight verticals are far more common.

Thanks for confirming that the aim is not to hide the hook, John. I have seen your previous opinions about additional requirements needed for octave lines.

You are very welcome, Daniel. While my aim is not to hide the hook per se but to allow additional lines to be added, others may have different requirements; and octave lines without hooks do occur. For example, the oldest style of octave sign was a line that ends not with a hook but with the word loco. Someone doing an authentic edition who wished to preserve that feature would need to be able to eliminate the hooks.