open buss structure

Please lets get an open buss structure. Busses can have the same input.
tracks can be routet to one or more busses at the same time
Busses to tracks etc.

This is so very important.

Kind regards

Peter

+100

I don’t understand what you’re missing. This pops up every now and then but isn’t the above possible already? Tracks could be routed to one or more busses at the same time in v5.x. And you could route from a bus to a track.

As for several buses having the same input I think the thing is that compared to PT the “buses are visible”. So in PT you’d go from a track to a bus which you couldn’t see, and then set an aux to get its signal from that bus. In Nuendo you’d do the same thing except you’d call the “bus” a “group” or “fx” and you’d see it on the mixer.

Know what I mean?

What version are you guys on?

What I for one need is to be clear… with an exsample.

mono/stereo tracks 1 to 8…outputs can be routet to say 3 mono/stereo busses/groups at the same time. track 1 to 8 output bus 1/2…Buss 1 to 3 has input 1/2.

mono/stereo busses/groups can be send to mono/stereo audiotracks etc.

Audiotrack(s) outputs can be routet to both busses/groups and stereo mix output at the same time etc.

I know that I can get around this by ussing sends and/or setting it all up in the “background” etc…but seriously…it would be soo much easier using the buss structures like PT. .or juest like any large scale mixingboard

Hope this clears it up…(im on Nuendo 6.03 btw)

/Peter

Don’t you can do all this by using “DirectRouting” (available since N5)?
No need for sends imo. Are you aware of this feature?

Otherwise you can set up “old school” busses in vst-connections (F4) just like in Pro Tools, do not connect them to physical hardware, and use them just for routing just like in PT.

Or do I miss a thing?

I dunno…It might be me missing this?..But I cant seem to get my head around it?

What I want it to set busses up in parallel…“stereo busses one-two and three” all have/share the same input buss number. lets say 1+2. The output of these 3 busses should be routet eiter to mix stereo out…another stereo audio track input or both of them for further recording and/or processing etc.

Thanks for asking and solution offerings

Kind regards

/Peter

I get what you’re talking about now. In Pro Tools you get to select the input of an Aux, in Nuendo you don’t get to select the input of a group. BUT, you do get to select the output of one. So;

If you’re in Pro Tools, and you go into I/O setup, you will see inputs, outputs, and buses, right? NONE of these are visible in a “clean” project’s mixer. And if you for example create a new track, you can choose any of the inputs and send it to either an aux or any of the outputs, right? But you still ONLY see that ONE track that you created, even though the inputs, outputs and buses are in the I/O setup window.

Think of Nuendo the same way, except you can actually see the inputs, outputs, “regular” groups and “fx” which are groups too more or less.

  1. Create your parallel “buses” first, stereo buses “one-two and three”. They will be group tracks and you can choose the output you want, for example “mix stereo out”.

  2. Create a stereo group track and call it “bus 1/2”.

  3. On this group, “bus 1/2”, in the direct routing just send signal to all three newly created groups.

  4. Your source tracks can now be sent to this “bus 1/2” and signal then goes to your “parallel buses one-two and three” and then to your “mix stereo out”.

-> If you now hide the “bus 1/2” group track in the mixer it will look “like PT” because it’s available to route to but is “invisible”. The difference you were talking about is that if you ever wanted to add another “parallel bus” you wouldn’t be able to set its input on that track itself, you would have to add it in "bus 1/2"s direct out routing.

Does that do what you want?

I can’t find anything in this feature request that we don’t have today.

Please explain if I’m missing something.

We can today:

  • route a track to several groups/busses at once and even automate it.
  • a bus/group can be routed to an audio track for record
  • we can listen to many sources/busses in the CR (PT really needs to get themselves a Control Room)

Pål

The difference is that you can route the output but not the input compared to PT. I think that’s what he was looking for. See my previous post.

Yes, I understood that.
But you can still do, or get the same functionality.

Pål

Well, yes, with the following two exceptions though I think;

one - you have to go to the actual bus to send a signal, as opposed to set the input of a newly created channel. I can see how that’s less convenient having worked mostly in PT. In PT the bus is hidden and I don’t have to mess with it.

two - it seems to me that you’d be limited to sending to 8 destinations. Not sure if this ends up being a practical limitation, but if you compare setting inputs on tracks to setting the send/out there’s a difference I think.

The way it is now doesn’t really bother me, but I can see his point.

Of course I can see the point.

Since I’m most used to the Cubendo way, I think the PT way is more cumbersome :slight_smile:

It is the same in Pyramix as in PT by the way. And I think it is because both originate from DSP based systems. TDM based.
So all you had was those busses underneath.

Wouldn’t surprise me much if Avid changes stuff in versions after PT11, to be able to more freely and rely on the busses all the time.

Anyways: Both ways of doing this get’s you to the finish line.

P

Hi guys,

Thanks so very much for your input(s). Sorry Im slow to post a reply…But I dont get much time to be on forum very often. Your effort is very much appriciated :wink:.

Its not flexsible in any way…it take way too long to get around this. As one would need to setup and choose behind the scene (F4)…plus on the mixer…Think of any large scale mixing board SSL/NEVE etc…Its fast…its open buss structure on the fly…

Im still trying to get around this… :smiley:. And I dont see (at this point) how I can change to inputs very quickly on the groups in the mix window…track output to groupsinput >>another track (forrecording) and stereo main mix output at the same time etc?..

/Peter

Sorry, but I don’t think you’re being very clear now.

Me and Pål both explained pretty well how to get what you want to happen to happen. You can easily set up templates with “hidden” busses if you want to and then use them.

It is what it is. The only thing I’d wish for is the ability to select an input rather than an output.

Seconding that emotion.

I am trying to understand what the actual problem is, and am coming up with bupkis. It seems to me that everything the OP is asking for is, independent of like nomenclature, there for the doing.

Chewy

Hi yes on my exsample you did, but it was only one exsample among many …the isue is “open buss”…and thanks greatly for that, but its still not open buss structure…in and out put can NOT be routet freely and eazily. As you point out inputs are still a major problem? just to name one :wink:.

If you never worked on a “large scale console” I can understand why its difficult to understand what open buss structure is…or should be. We are in 2013…the DAW in various forms as we know it has been around since ohhh 1998 or soo give or take :wink:. this should imho NOT still be a problem. :wink:.

Kind regards

Peter

Can you give some more examples then? Because I honestly don’t see any problems other than that. And I’m on PT 95% of the time for paying work.

Can you give some more examples then? Because I honestly don’t see any problems other than that. And I’m on PT 95% of the time for paying work.

Well THAt is surely a MAJOR problem…as it does NOT give open buss structure to freely choose any output and input…and route it where you want? as one would on any major large mixing console…well to some extent with several “turn arounds” one can…But it takes too much time…it involvels working several places than only in the mix window. I dont know about you…But having very demanding clients in the studio…with very demanding producers…it a MAJOR problem…not to very eazy route audiotracks in/out…busses in/out etc…in series/parallel…as one pleases to serve multible tacks on the fly. Its take time away from what is most importent at least to me…the music.

I want to be able to…on the fly in the mix window to (without having to fool around in other windows and yes I could have different “templates”…but hey…Idea´s fly around and things changes very quicly…and one template might fit one session but not another…etc.)… have acces to all inputs/outputs with just one click…72 audio tracks or more…route them to multible different mono/stereo busses…from there to other multible stereo/mono audio tracks for stem mixdown/pre sub mixes/processing…recording of FX #ch to multible and/or one audiotrac(s) etc…at the same time send them to stereo/mono mix out…record whats on the main stereo mix buss to another mono/stereo audiotrack etc…Total freedom equals open buss structure on the fly…wich we do not have!!. thats what Im kindly asking for in future updates/versions of Nuendo.

/Peter

No offense, but you’re very unclear when you write. This is about engineering and I think you just need to be more specific when talking about these sorts of things. You say two things above for example, first that you can’t do something and then that you can but that it takes time. Two different statements.

Also please read what we wrote a bit more carefully and think more about it. I mentioned this earlier and it’s still true: In PT you don’t see your buses but you can in Nuendo. I repeat this because you said you have to leave the mix window which you don’t if you set this up in advance and save it as a template or for import into your studio settings window. You clearly missed this point of mine. So let me repeat it again:

In PT you have the i/o setup. In the i/o setup you can activate/deactivate buses. And then you don’t see them but they’re there. You can do exactly the same thing in Nuendo. You set up and label your buses and make them not visible in the mix window and for all intents and purposes it’s exactly the same thing with the exception that you have to open a used bus and select its output to your desired input as opposed to simply choose it as an input on your “receiving” track.

Like I said, it’s really hard to read what you write, but from what I’ve been able to interpret so far there isn’t a single thing that you’ve described that you can’t do in Nuendo. Not one. You gave one example and we explained how you can get that done. Give more examples and we can help you more. But be clear and specific.

Hi, Thanks

None taken at all :wink:.

I´ll try to be more clear :wink:. Im sorry if I said I both could do it all and not on the same time…If I could I wouldn´t be here :slight_smile:. Some of the thing I can do…surely. again not my intention to say I could both :slight_smile: I quess I said to some extent :wink:.


I have created a small session. With just one stereo audio track. I then created in windows (F4) 3 group tracks/busses. I send via direct send/out from the stereo audiotrack to group 1+2+3. I also send the output of the stereo audiotrack to main mixout. I have also created 2 FX groups (reverb + Delay). No problems so far in my understanding :wink:. :smiley:.

Another exsample as you asked for it !.

What I cant get my head around and what seems to be one of my problems (and as I said earlier…It might be me) but here we go.

I now want to record each grouptrack created in the mix window on 3 different audio tracks. At the same time I want to sum the 3 groups to be recorded on yet another audio track (sum group track). I also want to record the fx ch to each their own audiotracks + if needed I want to send whatever is needed of the fx ch´s to be recorded with both the 3 individual groups track + the sumgroup track. This while Im still sending all grp-track + fx´s to main mix buss.

At the same time I want to send the mainmix output (my stereo ouput buss) to different group tracks with or without further processing to be recorded on yet one or more audiotracks sharing the same input(s). With this I mean If I create a audiotrack say stereo…I want to be able to send/allocate freely whatever I want/need to…to this one stereo audiotrack at the same time…or…I want to create yet a stereo audio track and route the same outputs to that as well plus I want to send the main mix-output to be recorded on yet a audio track with the mix-output processing etc.

Another thing…be able to route the output from a audiotrack to the input of another audiotrack and/or multible audiotracs + group(s) + mixbuss at the same time.?

I dunno? is this better for you to understand? I cant in the mix window choose my inputs on the audiotracks to be the same freely?

Peter