Can we add a property to glissandi that offsets the reset time of MIDI pitch bends? It’s unfortunate when the decay of a sound extends beyond the time at which the bend is reset to zero.
Currently, I have to effect this manually by plotting additional points in the key editor (not shown in the video). It’s extra work that introduces a slight but sometimes noticeable glitch in playback, and that is problematic if I edit the relevant notation later.
Any chance this problem goes away if you activate “Enable independent voice playback” in the Player? If no, it seems like an unfortunate decision was made when pitch bend capability was added to Dorico’s MIDI file generator.
Can you export this example as a MIDI file, and post it? I have a MIDI file editor and would be happy to look at it. I’m curious if the pitch bend is done by Pitch Wheel events, or is included in the note-on and note-off events, or by some other means I’m not aware of.
If you need a clean MIDI file for further production, and if you can tolerate these premature pitch return glitches during composition, it might be possible to do a mass edit on Dorico’s MIDI file, and go forward using that in your DAW.
It’s already enabled.
I can save you the trouble: they’re pitch wheel events. That’s what the MIDI Pitch Bend track of the Key Editor (shown at the bottom of my video) represents. If I watch the pitch wheel in my VST, then I can see it move.
The issue is straightforward, it seems to me. Pitch bend is simply being set to zero at the end of the note as notated, not as sounded. Either Dorico needs to calculate when the sound of the note has terminated (probably rather difficult, given reverb settings and other effects), or it needs to provide users with some means of modifying where the pitch bend reset occurs (hence my request for such a property).
I entered your example and it plays fine using the default trombone sound (HALion). I tried it because I thought it odd that the pitch bend would change the pitch after the release of the note (and I should have experienced this if it was a common thing). Maybe it’s your VST that’s doing something weird? What are you using? I’d contact the makers of that.
Thanks for the pitch wheel detail. Seeing that the pitch bend returns to 0 at the end of the written note strongly suggests that the note-off event is triggering it. The “tail” of your VST sample is triggered by and continues to sound after the note-off event, but at the un-bent pitch. The conceptually easy fix would be to return the pitch bend to 0 at the next note-on event.
It’s not weird. For my VST (Spitfire), pitch bend simply affects whatever is coming out of the channel.
Dorico resets the bend at note-off (i.e., immediately after the written duration) instead of at the next note-on event. If you aren’t hearing it, then either your VST is super dry (no tail/reverb) or it’s programmed to ignore bend messages when a note isn’t actually playing.
Yeah, that’s my guess, as well.
Yeah, it would be nice to have Dorico do that on its own, instead of my having to do it manually by adding compensatory MIDI pitch bend values in the key editor.
I guess my question is, how do I get closer to that ideal algorithmically, either via Dorico settings or my own code? I can’t script the instrument in my VST, since Spitfire password-locks all the sandbox tabs.
When I called the behaviour weird, that was from my perspective as a trombone player. Once I stop blowing, it doesn’t matter what I do with the slide. I can play in a cathedral with a huge reverb - that makes no difference. To me, it’s counterintuitive that the pitch bend would alter the reverb.
But if the - from my perspective - weird playback is common on keyboards and VSTs, then it’s definitely something that should be fixed on Dorico’s end. (And of course I wouldn’t be opposed to them fixing it for you even if Spitfire does things in an uncommon way.)
A possible, possibly last-ditch effort: Unless Spitfire locks you out of this also, find in the sample or expression map where this tail (or decay, decay sample, release, release sample, et. seq.) is, and set it to zero or otherwise disable it. Check the playback to see if the tail goes away, and doesn’t leave any of the glitches you are getting with your manual editing (which to me suggests more issues). If you get this far, add/increase/sweeten the reverb to make up for the abrupt, unnatural cutoffs.
A hack to be sure, but this won’t leave little booby traps in your score you have to find when further editing. If Steinberg fixes this issue, you need change only the expression map and the reverb, and nothing in the score. Presumably, correct timing of the pitch wheel data will get generated (or whatever the fix turns out to be) when you load this project into a future Dorico.
Sure, from that perspective, being able to modify sound after it has been produced would seem odd. (Though not entirely, even for a player of a real instrument – e.g., timpani pedal bends.)
I wonder what problems might arise from resetting MIDI pitch bend to zero only at note-on, or when starting playback. Perhaps @Ulf or someone else at Steinberg can shed some light.
The tail can originate from the physical instrument itself, as a short persistence to the sound regardless of how abruptly the input is stopped, or as some de minimis reverb from the room the sample was recorded in and left in the sample. It can also be generated artificially by quickly fading the sample volume after the note-off event. Whatever the origin, it is part of the sample, continues sounding after the note-off event, and is subject to immediate changes in pitch bend (and other) controller data. Electronic/Player/DAW reverb is added only after the fact.
In @MiloDC’s example, it doesn’t sound like there is any added reverb at all, because I don’t hear any pitch smearing during the glissando or persisting after. Although the long decay after the written end of the note could be perceived as reverb, it’s likely a “Playing Technique” (Dorico’s or built into @MiloDC’s VST) for ending notes in that style, and is part of the sample.