Ornament help??

This is how it should look like
Triller mit Nachschlag.JPG
that’s what Dorico does with these notes.


Who can help … Thank you

Well, I think it’s pretty clear why Dorico is rightly forcing the grace notes after the barline, since you’re inserting a back repeat. What would the grace notes apply to? If they apply to the beginning of the repeat structure, they should be placed there.

The only way I can think to fake what you want is:

  1. Delete existing grace notes
  2. insert grace notes and very small rhythmic-value note at the end of the previous bar in a different voice
  3. Remove rests, scale note to 1%, and manually adjust grace notes in Engrave mode.

I tried your suggestion before, but the second voice disturbs the end of the trill - unfortunately… you have to decide for the graphics or the sound. Maybe it can be improved.
Thanks for the help.
All the best for the Christmas season

IMO the root cause of this is a basic design error in Dorico. The “grace notes before barline” property is simply the wrong way to attempt to create this notation

These “grace notes” don’t belong to the following note at all. They belong to the preceding note - i.e. they are part of the notation of the trill ornament.

Lilypond designed this right long before Dorico - except it makes a mess of the horizontal spacing of the grace notes, but that’s a different issue.

(Daniel has heard me bang on about this before, btw)

I would use the well known ‘hidden tuplet hack’ from Sibelius to create grace notes before the barline in this case. (Create a tuplet for the half note + 2 grace notes (i.e. ‘7:6e’ in the popover), hide the tuplet number and bracket, and set the grace notes to grace note size.)

The problem with that work round is that the grace notes occupy rhythmic positions when they shouldn’t. For example if another staff ends the bar with some short full-size notes, they should not affect the alignment of the grace notes.

Yes, unfortunately you may need some manual tweaking.

By the way, you don’t. This is a fix without manual tweaking:


tuplet in a tuplet.png

Except that the spacing should be like this:

Or if you have more grace notes, like the second example
grace note spacing.png
more grace notes.png

I’ve discovered another possibility here that no one has shown me.
It looks good and sounds good. The possibilities are really great. However, there should be a more elegant method.


Thanks to all