Page Templates weird behavior

hi, Its me again…
i am trying to get my head around that page template things and chains and whatever.
Here is the thing. I created a Page Template Called “test” then added a page manually, and it is showing instant as an overwritten page template, I can remove the overrides, then the page is gone. Is it suppose to work like that? then I don’t get it why it does behave like this. :slight_smile:
here is the file.

test page templates and so on.dorico (556.7 KB)

In most instances, people leave the Default Page Template and First Page Template showing All Flows, and then use the Vertical Spacing settings within Layout Options, and Frame Breaks, to space flows nicely.

In your case, you’ve told both of the factory templates to display a very specific group of flows, meaning that if you add more flows to your project they won’t be displayed in the Layout unless you manually add a page for them.

Adding a page manually creates an override, because it goes against the natural way (see my first paragraph). Removing the overrides will thus delete the manually-added page.

It’s absolutely possible to do it the way you’re doing it, but I’m wondering why.

If it’s about not wanting to see Flow Headings, turn them off in Layout Options.

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The default template is probably fine if you don’t do method and worksheets. Atm I am trying to find a way how do stuff during a live session… means, it happens that I have to add things later and insert them. cause something need more explanation and so on, that are all the things I am testing and trying

The whole point of flows is that you can add them wherever you like, in the middle of a bunch of other flows if necessary, and the others will all shuffle accordingly.

In a live environment, I need speed, which very definitely means doing things once and letting the software do the rest of the work automatically.

I strongly advise figuring out how to achieve your goals without giving yourself all this extra work.

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There’s a little nuance about adding pages vs assigning page templates:

  • Adding an extra page, whether that’s blank or “uses” a page template, is a local page override. That is, inserting a page using a page template creates a new page with the frames from the page template, but it doesn’t retain a link to the page template.

  • Inserting a page template change forces a particular page to use the page template design, and retain a link to the page template.

tl;dr use “insert page template change” to retain the link to the page template. If you need to insert an extra page first, e.g. to help you yourself keep track of what you’re doing!, then assign the page template to the inserted page afterwards, then remove the local page override.

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“I strongly advise figuring out how to achieve your goals without giving yourself all this extra work.”
That’s why I am asking here :slight_smile:

I spent half the evening trying again… just to understand it properly… there are actually only two real pages… to which I assign a template. This means, if I put 6 frames on the two pages, for example, and tell these music frames to display only certain 6 flows, every page I manually add, since it actually doesn’t add a page, but only a custom layout for possibly the right or left side, is it an override of the previously determined layout? And as long as I don’t create any frame on the first page layout I assign that also allows a frame chain to the remaining flows, which are not assigned in a master template or are explicitly excluded, I can’t access them without an overwrite?"

test page templates and so on (alttered).dorico (905.2 KB)

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hm i kinda managed to get a non overwrite flagged new page… click on new page, then its blank, that means it overwrites cause its blank the actually template right? then I remove the overwrites… then It will get the standard template, then I can chose the template I want to have on it… and because its non blank, and has a master template on it, its not overwritten. do I get it right in my head?

I downloaded it and take a closer look tomorrow. thank you for the work.

Overridden pages have a red triangle in the miniature in Engrave mode top right panel tool. That is the most reliable way to know :wink:

I wish there is something like “conquering finale” for dorico XD don’t think I am stupid or not used to software, but if you read something like this for example. "Page template sets also contain flow headings that allow you to show flow titles above the start of each flow automatically, including when they start on the same page as a previous flow. " It’s like okay, what does this mean now. cause there are always Flow headers above each flow if you use Dorico without any changes as far as I know. How does the template contains his own flow headers now. I thought somewhere was written that the flow contains the flow header, and not the template? What does that mean at the end. As a first time user u have a really hard time. By the way I still don’t know how I have to put that XD

Flow headings can appear inside music frames that come from page templates, if the Layout Option is set to show flow headings.

If you create a custom page template, any music frames on that template have the ability to show flow headings.

If you insert a blank page in a layout and draw in layout music frames just on that page, those music frames can’t show flow headings inside them.

You could also try the “Creating a worksheet” tutorial, available on this page (scroll down a bit)

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Regarding

If you look in the right panel of Engrave mode you’ll see that in addition to the Page Templates (which are stored within a Page Template Set) there’s a Flow Headings section which holds one Flow Heading (template). You can create more of these, if you wish, and they will be stored in the same Page Templates Set as the Page Templates above.

As Lillie says (and as I said earlier) if your goal is to not see Flow Headings, turn them off from Layout Options > Page Setup > Flows > Show Flow Headings.

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some things are in front of you, and u still don’t realise that its there. Thank you :wink: now it does make sense. Thank you for the screenshot :wink:

It’s on my documentation backlog to refer to the flow headings that you can edit in Engrave mode as “flow heading templates”, to differentiate from the resulting flow headings that appear on pages, for what it’s worth; that might help make explanations clearer!

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I followed exactly the tutorial two times in a row… this was my third try and all ended up with 3 pages.

there is a reason for confusion. I know now that the setting, all following pages should have used too. but the tutorial is telling different… I was walking through this tutorial already… its frustrating :confused:

If you are quoting instructions that use the term “Master Pages,” are you consulting the most recent manual?

i have no clue what I am consulting now, couse one tutorial is telling something from master templates / pages, the other just templates, and one is calling it vorlagen, I try to use the Dorico Pro 5 handbook, soo :slight_smile: if I use that word its couse of the tutorials I looked at.

“Master pages” was the long-used term, but there’s been a recent purge of all terms relating to “master” across multiple fields, so now in Dorico they’re “page templates.”

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