Pdf help for AI

[GeirSol]

I’m looking a little ahead and we’re going to need a pdf version of the help documents. It’s for training of local or sky AI-models.
Typical for RAG or context document reference.

[JuergenP]

All help is available as PDF already.

https://www.steinberg.help/search/all?value-filters=ft_sourcetype_smtg~%2522PDF%2522*product_names_smtg~%2522Dorico%2522*version_numbers_smtg~%25225.1%2522&content-lang=en-US

[Lillie_Harris]

Here’s a previous post on the topic of using Steinberg documentation in third-party AI training models from Ben Timms:

Using ChatGPT and the Dorico First Steps pdf's

This is an interesting thread/topic and one which we will discuss internally within Steinberg. There is undoubtedly an opportunity to look at these new technologies in making our expertly-written documentation even more accessible in a conversational format. As mentioned already here, our documentation is copyright, so while experimenting could be seen as fair use, it should be up to us if/when it comes to deploying this kind of technology in a way that serves you as our customers to the high …

Speaking more personally, I remain as-yet unconvinced about AI responses to questions about Dorico functionality. The accuracy rate in the examples I’ve seen leaves something to be desired, but the tone conveys a lot of authority, leaving a number of users confused.

[benwiggy]

There’s also this Scoring Notes article:

Old and new tech converge when using PDF Expert's AI Copilot with notation...

[GeirSol]

@JuergenP

All help is available as PDF already.

Steinberg

Ah. My bad. I didn’t see the pro desktop version.
It’s there. Thanks!

[GeirSol]

@Lillie_Harris

Speaking more personally, I remain as-yet unconvinced about AI responses to questions about Dorico functionality. The accuracy rate in the examples I’ve seen leaves something to be desired, but the tone conveys a lot of authority, leaving a number of users confused.

I’ve used ChatGPT 4o as everything from car-tech-expert to medical doctor and psychologist, and I’m very impressed. Google search will soon be replaced by AI-search. And a software like Steinberg Dorico will go out of existence within 7 years if not incorporating AI (my predictions)

[YourMusic.Pro]

Actually, I took the effort to install Python, Ollama, and Open WebUi along with several dozens of Gigabytes in LLMs locally in order to be as copyright-compliant as possible and not upload the PDF to servers unknown…
As long as the LLM in question fits into local GPU VRAM, answers come fast and are correct as far as I can see so far!
It helps, I think, to use a model geared towards technical information, such as Microsofts Phi-4, I had really nice results with that.
Again, no data ever leaves my machine with respect to the Dorico PDF.
That being said, I really think that chatting with the manual should be one of the first offers of the Dorico help system…

Cheers,
Benji

[JuergenP]

This unconditional belief in an all-conquering AI is something that never ceases to amaze me.

So far, I haven’t received absolutely correct answers from any of these AI things; on the contrary, I’ve seen some outrageous nonsense.

I’m still able to read manuals myself and do an internet search manually, I don’t need something called AI and I suddenly have to check if the generated stuff is even correct.

@GeirSol

Google search will soon be replaced by AI-search. And a software like Steinberg Dorico will go out of existence within 7 years if not incorporating AI

Sorry, but that is something I do not believe even for a single second.

[GeirSol]

@YourMusic.Pro

I took the effort to install Python, Ollama, and Open WebUi along with several dozens of Gigabytes in LLMs locally in order to be as copyright-compliant as possible and not upload the PDF to servers unknown…
As long as the LLM in question fits into local GPU VRAM, answers come fast and are correct as far as I can see so far!

Cool. I’ve only tried ChatGPT online so far, as my expertise is not the greatest.
Document attachment will work ok so far I believe.
But I’d love to see a well trained model for Dorico, orchestration and composing.

[GeirSol]

@JuergenP

So far, I haven’t received absolutely correct answers from any of these AI things; on the contrary, I’ve seen some outrageous nonsense.

I’ve seen some rubbish in the past as well. But, in general, those days are mostly gone. And this is still AI infancy.
However, music theory and notation is a field lagging behind (compared with image and video). You’ll still see some nonsense here.

[benwiggy]

My experience of AI has also been pretty terrible, for things like basic text comprehension, software generation, and image-from-text generation. Google Search’s AI results are often wrong, or don’t answer the question.

On Mac-help forums, the number of people saying “I asked ChatGPT, which told me to do this…” – which they blindly did, making it worse – is frightening.

I’d love AI to work well: but… give it another 5 years before it’s actually reliable.

Music scanning (OMR) is certainly one area where AI would be massively useful.

[YourMusic.Pro]

Yeah, I just tried it, and there was a pretty significant error in the answer that would throw off someone looking for a correct answer and not familiar with Dorico…
But we’re getting there…

[benwiggy]

@YourMusic.Pro

there was a pretty significant error in the answer

Not just the wrong key command, but the process itself was wrong! (Was just about to comment…)

[derAbgang]

@YourMusic.Pro

really think that chatting with the manual […]

I’m old, but a line like that makes me feel from the stone age. Chatting with a manual? Yes, I get it, but really interesting to read it out loud.

[YourMusic.Pro]

Yeah, that’s why I deleted it, didn’t want to contaminate the forum… It’s early days, and Steinberg can surely cook up something better…
I used a function of Open WebUI, where a LLM reads a repository of papers and makes it interactively accessible but I likely didn’t use it correctly!
Still fun to play around with this stuff… It’s a total rabbit hole though! If you want fast interaction, the entire model needs to fit inside the VRAM of the graphics card, and that gets really expensive very quickly. …

B.

[GeirSol]

@derAbgang

I’m old, but a line like that makes me feel from the stone age. Chatting with a manual? Yes, I get it, but really interesting to read it out loud.

Imagine this: You have a Dorico expert sitting beside you to answer any question you have at any moment, remembering exact location of everything.
Could be nice, right?

[GeirSol]

@YourMusic.Pro

I took the effort to install Python, Ollama, and Open WebUi along with several dozens of Gigabytes in LLMs

I tried this too, but didn’t manage to get up and running.
Would of course be far more efficient if Steinberg could run an AI Dorico helper than if every user should make this locally.

[benwiggy]

@GeirSol

Would of course be far more efficient if Steinberg could run an AI Dorico helper, than if every user should make this locally.

“It looks like you’re writing a fugue. Would you like some help with that?”

[YourMusic.Pro]

No, but seriously now, click help, find menu item “interactive help”, open text field, type or speak your question, and get either step by step instructions or have Dorico even open the correct dialog boxes for me.

Why the heck not?

[derAbgang]

@YourMusic.Pro

open text field, type […] your question, and […] have Dorico even open the correct dialog boxes for me.

Minus the removal of “speak” (although I’m sure accessibility allows one to speak into text boxes) and “instructions”, this is exactly what I use the Jump bar for.