Pedal retake position

I am enjoying my 30-day trial of Dorico 3.

While exploring the pedal lines, I noticed that the apex of the retake ^-symbol in Dorico points to the left side of the note head. I have always centered it to middle of the note head, because this maps to what actually happens in performance: the pedal is changed very quickly slightly after the note is played to overlap it with the previous sound, thus the terms “overlapping pedal”, “syncopated pedaling” etc. I looked through several US educational editions, and all center it as I do.

I couldn’t find an option to exactly adjust the horizontal position of the retake under Engraving Options>Position of retake. Does such an option exist?

I know I can change each one manually, but that is laborious.
Pedal retake Dorico.jpeg
Pedal retake US standard.jpeg

It’s in the playback options>pedal lines

Dear dbudde,
I think John was talking about notation, not playback. There’s no option in Engraving options that can make a retake centered on the note, it looks as if it’s centered on the beginning of the note (or the stem if it’s downstem. This could be an interesting option.

Marc, you are right about the notation.

John, you can adjust several at a time by selecting them and then set the x offset to 1/2.

To select, do a marquee selection over the entire pedal line and then deselect the ped start. This will leave the retakes all selected.

I agree it would be nice being able to adjust this generally in the Engraving options.

We position the retake at the left-hand side of the notehead both because that is what looked to be most common in the publications we studied, and also because it makes logical sense given that in temporal terms that is typically where the retake is performed. But I’ve made a note of this and we’ll see about adding an option for this in a future version.

Thanks for the information and support in adding this as an option. MarcLarcher amd Juerg Loeffler. And/or the default should changed to what appears to be the standard. Or is it standard? Has anyone seen it done the other way by major publishers?

Thanks for the tip about the marquee selection, dbudde! That would help. Now if I could select every pedal mark in the piece…

Our posts obviously crossed, Daniel. Thank you for considering this option.

It might be a national thing. I looked at publications by Alfred, Belwin-Mills, Carl Fischer, Kjos, Boston Music Co. and others, all of whom use the all-bracket system for pedaling.

I also see it in Ligeti’s Etude no. 13 published by Schott. Interestingly, he is also using two different styles of retake, small and large. Always something new under the sun!

Here is an example from Schott (Rock Piano 1 - ED7029)

Those two retakes aren’t even in the same position relative to the notehead.

Maybe it’s trying to show that the timing of the pedaling is different when there is a grace note :laughing:

TBH I disagree that

what actually happens in performance: the pedal is changed very quickly slightly after the note is played to overlap it with the previous sound

is the best way to teach legato pedalling in any case, but “what actually happens in performance” should be changing on a note-by-note basis, and trying to notate it “exactly” is a futile exercise.

(The thing that should be taught IMO is that for legato pedalling the up-stroke of the pedal makes the dampers hit the string at exactly the same time as the next note is played. Obviously that means that the downstroke comes later, but exactly when the downstroke happens is not what a beginner should be focusing on. The first exercises should be slow enough that it doesn’t matter, until the hand-and-foot coordination is getting the upstroke timing right. The downstroke should always be “after the notes” in any pedalling, legato or otherwise, unless you want to create a special effect, but the notation doesn’t attempt to show that.)