Percussion Map. Articulation overriding the Natural

Good evening. I’m having variable success with my percussion maps. I’m trying to use CinePercussion in this particular project. I’ve set up the Timpani no problem (in the Expression map) and the bass drum no problem in the percussion map. I’m having a problem with the snare drum however. I’m able to make it function with one artuclation fine (once i’ve eventually found middle C!) by simply entering the ‘NATURAL’ note (60) and of course remembering to assign the correct percussion map, but when I come to enter a snare roll (59) into the map (then test it out on the score), it overrides the NATURAL and plays snare rolls for everything, even if there are no markings (tremolo for example) entered. It’s a little frustrating as everything else is working great. I have been experimenting with PLAYING TECHNIQUES and PLAYBACK TECHNIQUES and thought I may have done something wrong in error. Any help would be gratefully received.

Could you upload a simplified project which demonstrates the issue – just a few bars?

How do you trigger the roll? You could (should?) use the percussion playing technique editor (when you edit your percussion kit (if you have one), there’s a button to take you to that editor. And if you use separate instruments, it’s in the instrument’s menu, in Setup mode (the little menu at the right of the instrument’s name, left column).
You can add a technique to your natural snare hit by clicking the + button, and choose the three strokes to trigger roll playback technique.
This way, the roll should only happen on three stroked notes.

Ok. Will try that. Thank you.

Thank you for your time Marc. I’ve done what you instructed but it continued playing the same articulation (roll). I’ve gone back into the Percussion map and placed the key switches in and I now have all the correct articulations playing back. However, I was hoping to be able to input this instruments notes along with their various articulation using my keyboard. I can play one articulation (‘Natural’) for example and write in all the rhythm’s I require but was kind of hoping that the articulations would automatically be written in using my keyboard (there just a single line for the snare drum). Is that possible. Regards. Wayne

Thanks. I’ve managed to get them to play back ok now. I was hoping I could input the side drum (single line) along with it’s articulations via my keyboard. Right now I can input ONE note on the line with my desired rhythm. Marc is kindly helping right now. Will get back to you. Regards, Wayne

Ok, I see what you mean. For instance, play a C4 on your keyboard, and it’s a natural snare. Play a, say, C#4, and it’s rolling, and D4 and it’s rimshot. That’s something you can certainly do using main techniques (I call that this way to differ from adding articulations or decorations on the stem — you change the notehead. Although it works perfectly, I don’t think this is something your really want to see in a score).
In the Preferences>Note input, there’s a setting for inputting percussion. You either decide to follow the percussion map (what I’ve described above would be just that) or you decide to follow the 5-line-staff (as if it were a G clef staff), but this won’t work to input different techniques of the same instrument, since that instrument is on one “note” only.

I try it as I explain. I open a new file and create a drum set player. Then I will check out the snare playing techniques (and playback techniques).

That is what I described in my first answer, what does work for notation:

I discover it does work for a single line snare drum, but not for a drum kit (with NotePerformer)…
I think I’ll go through another route and use GASE. Oh no, there is no snare roll in GASE either.

So I decide to go the “Spitfire Percussion Joby Burgess” route — not really surprising as I’m the guy who built the percussion maps and defined the MIDI mapping for Dorico, available somewhere else in the forum.
Now, we have snares that do have roll playback techniques, because they were recorded like that. Meaning it’s not the software that creates a roll by playing fast enough round robins of the same instrument.

Now, if I try to enter notes on my snare drum line with a roll main technique added like this :

I simply have to press the A1 key on my MIDI keyboard and it works.

But nobody wants to read this kind of score.

You have a perfectly working environment to create scores that will sound the way you want, entering notes with a MIDI keyboard (or through MIDI import of existing grooves as midi files) but they won’t look the way a correct percussion score should look.
You also have a perfectly working environment to notate scores exactly the way you want, but this involves creating “natural” notes and then modifying them (either with strokes decorations or articulations). I hope this is something that will evolve, there’s still a bridge between the two workflows that it would be nice not to have to cross. In other words, what would be great in my little example would be that pressing A1 makes Dorico write a 3 stroked natural note (as defined in the percussion playing technique editor). Consider this a FR.

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You read my mind. That’s exactly what I’ve just being trying to do, (after reading the note input for percussion you mentioned earlier), hadn’t quite got as far as creating lots of different note heads for different techniques and twiddling the designated control key to access them on the fly. In the interest of sanity I’ll stick with modifying the natural notes for now. Thank you so much for your time and help. Would be interesting if there was some way of combining a percussion map with an Expression map. Will definitely take a peek at “Spitfire Percussion Joby Burgess”, sounds cool. Thank you.

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You can use an expression map, for instance to be able to have hairpins working — I use one to have CC11 working along with velocity. But it won’t be used to change playback techniques according to playing techniques or articulations applied, that’s the percussion map’s job :wink:
Any library that has some kind of “roll” embedded (meaning recorded and usable to overtake the built-up rolls with fast round robins played) will work. I’ve just finished some Superior Drummer perc maps (posted and shared too) and there is snare roll. Spitfire Percussion is rather on the old side now (although very useful), but I’m sure VSL synchron percussion have rolls (and as time goes by, I kinda think I should have taken that VSL route. Not convinced about Spitfire anymore… And VSL makes expression maps, percussion maps, etc, for their products so that they can be used on Dorico, they do not rely on us users!)
Hope it helps!

Errrrrm. Problems again. It’s doing the same thing once more, except this time it’s playing random snare articulations and not accessing the roll. Can’t believe it. Not sure what I did. It was working beautifully. I’ve reset both playing techniques and playback techniques to factory settings. I’ve tried using inside the drum kit and the same thing happened. Went back into Note input and editing, tried using staff position and then percussion map. Would be forgiven for thinking there might be a bug in the snare drum. Have edited the playing techniques in setup.

Holy Moses. It’s NOW working. I can’t work it out. I’m seriously thinking there is a bug in Dorico in relation to the snare drum. Heres the working copy.