Piano libraries for duet

Dorico
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I’m working on something for two pianos and it occurred to me that to sound right it might need … two pianos

There are a couple of aspects to this one

The obvious one being that it would be nice if the two pianos weren’t identical. Using the same piano with different mics could work but there are also some very nice libraries that could make it a more interesting proposition

The second part is the technical end of working with different libraries. I’ve read through a lot of comments on various libraries and there seem to be issues with some of them not being workable one way or another

I’ve tried to narrow the choices for example to what works with Kontakt or in the case of Garritan CFX the aria player on the assumption that they might be less problematic

I’ve noticed also in some of the discussions that people were mostly using them in DAWs, so I’m wondering if there will be any added considerations for using them in Dorico

Thus far I have only used libraries within Dorico/NP so dropping NP out of the equation will be a new thing

Essentially it comes down to getting the contrast between instruments and still sounding like they are in the same space, and to be simple to work with

After reading through reviews etc a few that stand out

Kawai Legend
Max Richter Piano
Garritan CFX

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I know quite a few folks here speak highly of Pianoteq, which offers multiple pianos to choose from.

It looks as if they might be having a sale now.

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@bluekayak88, I agree with @Derrek that Pianoteq is well worth a look/listen (especially with their current -20% sale on the Standard Edition and all instrument packs through Aug. 15, 2024). One handy thing is that you can try out all of the instruments in addition to listening to demos; the trialed instruments are simply missing some notes in playback.

Each instrument comes with a number of preset variations (aspects of the piano, mic placement/blend, reverb) for quick call-up, but you can also customize many, many aspects of the (modeled, not sampled) sound and save those settings. And for your duet project(s), it would be very simple to choose from different pianos.

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Thanks i’ll look at those

The Max Richter piano looks interesting

Limited use but has two different incarnations of the same instrument

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I’ve not heard it. From the website, I can’t tell what the second instrument is. Am I missing something?

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I really like Boz Master Keys which has a bundle of various great sounding pianos and they are highly configurable. And currently on sale!

A few times I’ve wanted to combine more than one piano, I’ve used slightly different pianos from Boz, slightly different mic settings, and pan them apart. For added realism of individual acoustic pianos you could even detune them by a tiny amount - 1-2 hz so if they are from the same library, the samples don’t sound robotically on the dot.

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I wouldn’t obsess about playback. Piano instruments are commonplace. Just write your music.

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It was recorded open w various mics

and also closed and covered for a “darker” sound

which you’d expect maybe to mean muffled but doesn’t seem to be

Bit of a novelty thing

I haven’t heard the closed version through headphones so can’t say if I like it or not

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It all depends on how important a really good piano sound is to you. By common consent across reviews on specialist piano forums, the VSL series are the best pianos overall and I particularly like the venerable Vienna Imperial which is currently on half price sale. Pianos in general do not require separate articulations so there is no issue using most of them in Dorico.

Of course this isn’t the cheapest route – the latest Pianoteq is not bad at all with considerably improved sound over my previous v6 but I still feel it doesn’t quite have the resonance of the best sampled pianos. Just about any modern sampled piano will be a big step forward from NotePerformer, though.

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Good tools make work so much better

I have a beautiful old instrument but unfortunately is now off limits during most hours of the day

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I’m also wondering if piano libraries will need all of the work of setting up endpoint configurations expression maps etc that other libraries require?

I just realized that since I’m using Noteperformer that is likely the piano I’m hearing

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Here is my suggestion:

It is 30% off right now. I really like this library (you will need UVI as a host to run it. It is free).

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SInce piano VSTs mostly rely on velocity alone for dynamics, their Expression Maps would usually be simpler than sustaining instruments.

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So does that mean these pianos are plug and play? meaning with Dorico of course

I have only the vaguest notion of what expression maps, endpoint configurations etc are or what is involved in making them

It all looks very foreign to music making which is what makes NP so appealing

But the NPPEs aren’t there for any of the pianos as far as I can see

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you really don’t need Expression Maps or Endpoints for most pianos beyond the default-- these are designed for instruments which have a variety of articulations which a piano doesn’t. Standard sustain pedalling is automatically taken care of by Dorico as it’s part of the MIDI standard. A few pianos have special techniques like half-pedalling or soft pedal for instance but even if you get one of them and really want to use those features (my VSL Vienna Imperial has a soft pedal but I can hardly hear the difference and don’t bother using it), it should only be a few minutes work to edit the default map.

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Thanks

This will sound funny but it eases my mind to know there’s some sort of a default built into Dorico to handle pianos

I’m hoping it will be similarly true for harps, marimbas etc but I suspect not

The less I need to deal with the technical aspect of things the better

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I’m guessing — far from being very versed in working with expression maps — that any instrument that’s plucked or thwacked will be less involved to deal with, since the (ordinary) sound production is, in essence, “triggered” (by a hammer, finger, stick, or mallet) by a player and thereafter decays according to its intrinsic material and design properties.

Of course, it will no doubt depend on the complexity of the sampled or modeled instrument (harmonics, bowed — and, therefore, sustained — metals, plucking position relative to ends of strings, etc.). But, stepping aside from your original two-piano application, since you have NP, a lot of those (more common) things are taken care of for you when you add playing techniques to the score.

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I’m just gonna add my 2 cents as a very satisfied long-time (14 years now) happy user of Pianoteq. The ability to have two similar pianos, but slightly modified, or even two different pianos, but functioning fairly similarly, and the ease of mic-ing them in situ in a duet formation if desired rather than just panning them, etc. would really give you a realistic environment in which to hear your playback, I think.

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I second this, totally.

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These are really good!

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