An online orchestration course said not to put pickup notes under slurs (as shown in my example). I laboriously moved all the slurs so they did not include any pickup notes; but the result sounded horrible, so I changed them all back.
What is your opinion of pickup notes under slurs? Thank you.
I would suggest that moving the slur gives a different meaning to the phrase.
What a ridiculous thing to say!
Better not tell Robert Schumann (listen to his Rhenish Symphony)
Pickups under slurs are OK! They are ubiquitous in the repertoire.
I’m hearing Beethoven’s 6th as we speak… 3rd mvt. Beautiful example of slurred pickups.
Thanks, everyone. This is helpful.
There’s also a general comment to make about relying solely on software sounds and playback to determine the merit (or otherwise) of a particular piece of composition/notation/orchestration.
They will rarely be a completely accurate representation of how real human performers would interpret and deliver what you’ve written, and (in my opinion anyway) you should write/notate your music for the intended target audience (ie if you want it to be played by people, notate it for people, not a computer).
Thank you, Lillie, and you are absolutely correct.
There have been times when I’ve created two versions of a score: one for real people and one to create the audio mockup I pitch to conductors.
You know far more than I do about how the software should work, but my personal observation is that Dorico plays unslurred notes a little too short (too detaché). Designers have to make choices and there may be good reasons for this. It’s just something I’ve noticed. Maybe there’s a setting.
Yes, there is.
If you’re using Noteperformer, it has its own override for this setting in the Expression Map. Noteperformer does certainly play non-slurred/non-legato notes quite short.
I was just lamenting this about 20 minutes ago, playing back at orchestration using NP. The note durations were painful.
Where is the setting for me to change this in NP? Thanks.
The easiest way is to change the Natural expression to CC19 = 1 (instead of 0), which matches the settings for the Legato expression.
You could try changing the Playback Option Overrides in the map, so that the default is longer than the 85% it’s set to.
Thank you, @benwiggy . For dummies like me, can you tell us where to find this setting?
I use NotePerformer to play back a combination of VSL, BBC, and native NotePerfomer instruments. The issue is most painful with strings (BBCSO), but it affects winds as well.
It’s all in the Expression Map editor.
OK I will try to find that.
Can someone point me where to find the expression map(s) for editing?
Library>Expression Maps
If you are playing around with the NotePerformer map, make a copy and work on that (and remember to point your noteperformer instances to use your own map rather than the original )
When you are happy, create your own Endpoint.
What instrument is this?
Slurring over the downbeat is more common when it is not string instruments (although you will find it in strings less frequently). The best way to slur will often be very different for woodwinds than with strings.
@benwiggy’s suggestion to change Control 19 to 1 for Natural seems to have solved the problem of overly short unslurred notes. Thank you.
UPDATE: I take that back. That did not fix it.
That’s what I was thinking. The statement originally referred to, “don’t put pickups under a slur,” sounds odd to me – certainly it’s not something I would have said in my years of teaching orchestration. But applied to string instruments, it makes a certain limited sense. It’s more in the nature of bowed instruments to begin a musical thought on the downbeat, with a down bow (and slurring for strings is an indication of bowing). They can include the pickup in the bow, of course, if that is essential in a certain case, but as one learns to think like a string player, one starts to think about bowing “with the meter” as the normal routine (with, again, exceptions possible depending on context), different from how the slurs would fall for winds.
