Playback : Dorico vs Cubase

Theoretically, should playback be as good in Dorico as in Cubase, once the adjustments are done? The quality of the bounce?

At the end of the day, DAW is just sending midi commands to VSTs, so why not?

But of course, Dorico doesn’t have plugins / effects that DAWs have, so you would be limited to plugins available with the VST (e.g. kontakt), or you would have to create audio files for each of the instruments and then do the post-processing in a daw.

The question isn’t stated correctly. Playback in Dorico is from notation, and the software does a lot of heavy lifting for you such as clearing all the channels and setting them to sensible values. This occurs in mid bar playback too, unlike a DAW which just slavishly plays from the MIDI track. In Dorico the MIDI is generated, and possibly edited, whereas in a DAW it’s only the MIDI.

So no they’ll not be exactly the same but for all practical purposes probably are.

Dorico VS a DAW, two different systems. That is precisely why I am asking the question. Whether the first system does a little work, and the second leaves that work to the user, that doesn’t change. Both can be configured in detail, in particular through automation. So if all things are equal at this level, can we expect Dorico to perform as well as Cubase at the bounce level? I myself specify in my first question: theoretically. In practice, however, I hear a difference. Before analyzing any further, I wanted to get some opinions on this point.

Of course. I’m talking about basic playback, before any effect. However, when midi commands are sent, I think there are algorithms in action. These may be different in Dorico and Cubase. I am less knowledgeable on these points, but I hear.

I don’t think getting wrapped up in it is going to help, as I said regardless of the MIDI Dorico shows you it’s doing MORE MIDI that it doesn’t show you. You can see this by putting a MIDI sniffer in between Dorico and an output port (you can’t see this with a VST instrument as it’s all internal). Not to mention that while Dorico leveraged playback from Cubase, it will still be a different system.

If you care then do what I did and use Cubase as the rendering system. Look on the forums, I posted how to do it. Because of this and other potential and actual issues Cubase hosts all the VST’s and just receives MIDI from Dorico for playback. It works brilliantly. When I need final stems I’ll ‘print’ (record) all the MIDI output from Dorico to Cubase tracks. Then I’ll have a consistent, known quantity for mixing.

Well, in dorico there’s the benefit of “humanization”, where you can easily setup beat accent and/or random timing errors. You can do that in a DAW, but it’s not as straight forward. Automation is better supported in DAWs at the moment.

Other than that, the point is really moot. What’s the difference in writing a note or liting a pad on a sequencer (e.g. maschine)? There is none. Midi is very simple standard, it was made to work with microprocessors available in the 80s. Regardless of the internal algorithms, the generated midi should be equal.

So it’s really just about the UI to get the specific MIDI output. In Dorico you write notes and articulations (and modify them in Play menu). In Maschine you press pads and play with knobs and sliders. In Maschine it’s easy to create music without any theoretical knowledge, but that music is usually more focused on manipulating texture (e.g. automating EQ or various synth parameters), which IMO goes way beyond what you can express with articulations. Dorico is on the other end of the spectrum. DAWs (Cubase, Logic) are somewhere in between, and the main UI seems to be (piano) keyboard for most users, but even that is changing to pads with Logic.

At least that’s my impression, but I’m neither “producer” nor composer, so I might be wrong.

Okay, thank you very much. I’ll try this and compare (Dorico alone, and dorico’s exits to Cubase).

Thank you. The humanization aspect of Dorico is indeed important in this question.

By the way, do you have the exact link?

Don’t make me do a search for you :smiley:

Just to throw this in, Cubase and Dorico use under the hood the same audio engine. So if both feed the audio engine with the exact same MIDI data, also the rendering will become identical.

Cubase 11 is probably coming out in a week. Rumors are of a Remote MIDI API - could this be our Dorico LiveLink connection perchance? Hmmmm, tasty

Isn’t that what rewire is for?

Sorry to say: No, it’s not.

Aww … well thanks Ulf

Sorry, majesty.

Thank you very much Ulf, this is important information.

That moves the question back a step to “given the same (nominal) score, will they generate the exact same MIDI data?”

I guess that with enough effort (and switching off all the humanization options in both apps) the user could ensure everything was the same except for precise timing information. In Dorico at least, MIDI events presumably go through the OS to get from one process (Dorico) to another (the audio engine). Maybe Cubase does that, or maybe not, or it does it but a different way from Dorico.

Is there anything in Cubase 11 that considers/improves communication with Dorico?