Playing two MIDI instruments at the same time?

[SYNC]

Hi again Micke,

My brain is fried at the moment…But I’ll try my best ramble again …

Yes,trying a midi router may be a good idea at this point. When you can get your hands on one…maybe your local music store will let you take one home…rent/try etc? Or as you said, just BUY one. Just make sure you get one that ‘can also be’ used as a stand-alone unit (without a computer if/when wanted) so you can do the necessary routing(s) you need on the interface itself…well, that’s preferred anyway…otherwise, you’ll have to make those setting in the computer as your ONLY option with it’s own software interface.

As I had said… connecting ONE midi instrument at a time is JUST to sort things out to simplify your troubleshooting. When using one midi instrument, you WANT to hear just the output of that midi track ONLY…that is, with just the V-Drums connected, you should hear ONLY EZDrummer…when you plug in JUST the keyboard, you want to hear ONLY the B4 as that midi tracks output. If you hear ONLY the wanted corresponding track/channel/VSTi, with this test method of one midi instrument, then you’ve succeeded.

The pics I found and posted, as always are images from googling of the subject…what version they’re from I don’t always know. They may look a little different among versions, but their concept should be the same.
It looks like in the image of your Midi Input Filter dialog box, that you’ve done what I said to do. YES, by entering midi channel #10, you’ve isolated/blocked any other midi channels from coming through, which is what you want. I’m not sure if you’re on LOCAL either (?) I’m not completely clear on the ‘Module’ concept myself, as it’s been a while since I severely read up on it in the manuals, but I just know that using Module 1 and ‘activated’ works. I would GUESS that each ‘Module’ would allow you to set up multiple ‘options’ to then choose from… you know, like an ‘alternate’

If I understand you correctly, you’re saying you only have done Midi Input Transformer set up with the EZDrummer track? and did NOT do this on the B4 midi track? If not, I would suggest to do the same for the B4 midi track as well anyway…why? because your GOAL is to get TWO midi sources (your V-drums & keyboard) to play into Cubase at the SAME time to play TWO different VSTi’s. You may as well get it set up so that it should work

And, why it seems that you are the only one in the world doing what you’re trying to do? Well, you’re NOT…it’s just that you haven’t found anyone doing that I’ve done something similar & more elaborate…and as I said, it should likely be the same methods…and that method involves the Midi Input Transformer…oh, and possibly more COWBELL too

So keep using that ‘blasted arrow’ and don’t forget to use that ‘blasted MONITOR’ button on both midi tracks

OH! I don’t recall if I had asked, you ARE using regular MIDI tracks right? And not Instrument tracks? It’s my understanding that an Instrument Track in Cubase will not allow midi to be sent externally…to a midi sound module, keyboard, or drum module etc, I can only assume that it may not work right with ‘receiving’ midi too…I’m not sure about that, but none the less, stay with regular midi tracks for now, as I can’t tell you much about Instrument Tracks.

I can’t say much about your ‘Daisy-Chaining’… if it’s even possible (?) that would be setting within that hardware…primarily a setting within your keyboard, as the V-Drums is the 1st in this chain, starting with midi OUT. Your keyboard would HAVE to be able to ‘receive’ your V-Drums midi, and pass that along to one of the outs (midi out or thru) as well as ‘combine’ the two…which by the way, I’m guessing that’s what you are meaning by saying “composite”.

I don’t have much experience with the Midi Device Manager or fully understand it myself…though I played with it for quite a while, I was still confused. But, I have been under the impression that it was NOT for what YOU are trying to currently do…nor have I needed it for doing what I’ve done similarly. As I understand it, this is more for to ‘control’ your external hardware from within your host DAW program, Cubase. I was trying to control my external hardware (midi sound modules) as what it was intended for. I’d say disregard that for now.

Yeah, there’s not a LOT of interest in Legacy versions, as many have moved on and kept upgrading. If the software you have does it for you, no need for anything else.

[MickeK]

Hi SYNC,

Fried brain here as well but for the moment I can now sit back and wait - for an interface to be sent to me.


I’ve come to the conclusion that a MIDI Router will solve my problems. All indications point to the fact that the chain don’t work. I’ve tested all alternatives with cabeling between my units and I believe I’ve tested the alternatives to do specific MIDI settings in the keyboard. If I missed something there (it was quite many options of turning thing on and off and whatever) I came to the end of the road anyway.

Before I got your latest posting I did what you suggest, filter the track with the B4 as well. It works. I could use one of the cabel setup to check. V-Drums MIDI OUT → Keyboard MIDI IN / Keyboard MIDI THRU → Sound Card MIDI IN
generated before both EZD & B4 from the V-Drums. Filtering the B4 track to only use ‘Channel 1’ did what I expected. Playing the drums generated just EZD sounds.

So my conclusion is that if I can connect the VDrums MIDI Out to one of a MIDI Routers MIDI In and the Keyboards MIDI Out to another MIDI In on the Router the MIDI Routers MIDI Out will send what I call the ‘composite’ signal to my Sound cards MIDI In. From that signal Cubase, by filtering, decide what will be played on the EZD resp. B4 track. I feel quite confident that it HAS to be so .

In a perfect situation I would do what you suggest, get a unit from a store with option to return it if it doesn’t work. To my disappointment I can’t do that. I live in the south of Sweden with 1 miljon people within 50 km and 20 minutes from Swedens 3rd city Malmoe. Not ANY of the music stores in this area has a MIDI Router in stock, otherwise I had been on my way already. So I checked out alternatives to order and best buy whas the ESI M4U XT. It’s just 4 Ins and 4 Outs but I think it will cover all my needs for now and a while. Compared to the MOTU 4+4 it was cheaper and the reviews was great.

I didn’t really understand how your MIDI Router could be used stand alone but I took my chances to get things happen. Have to wait 4-5 days to get deliverance. I attached the item with specifications. Hope you can cheer me up telling me it seems to be a good buy.

So we rest the discussion for now. As soon as I get the gear and are able to test I promise to add a posting here.

BIG thank you for all your efforts here. With our kind of common back ground you perhaps understood all my confusions and really tried to help. You know a lot more than me but I understand that there’s still mysteries in the MIDI world for you as well. If I ever get into more MIDI I know there’s a lot more than this but if I’ll get it to work I just give my regards to MIDI as a tech and start play .

My best
Micke


PS. From all my web-investigations about my task I encountered the “Instrument track” concept as well. New to me as my Cubase SX dinosaur version didn’t have that. So yes, I creat ‘real’ MIDI tracks all the time .

[SYNC]

Having my morning coffee

Had a look at that midi router. It should do the trick for what you want to do. It’s not a stand-alone capable device, so you’ll HAVE to use a computer with it to control it’s midi I/O routing. This is no problem as long as you don’t have any intentions of ‘jamming’ without a computer to control the routers midi I/O.

Side Note; [‘Some’ routers (my Motu’s do this) can be pre-programmed /routed within the computer 1st, disconnected and then be used ‘live’ with a midi instrument/midi sound module array. From what I can tell, this unit you ordered appears this is not possible.] …

From the Knowledge Base…

Can I use M4U XT without a computer?

No. M4U XT is a USB MIDI interface that requires to be connected to a computer to operate. In order to send MIDI signals through from an input to an output and/or to merge several MIDI signals, a software application is required. Many Audio-/MIDI sequencers and DAW applications provide this functionality.

It has USB bus power, and is Plug N’ Play, but I’m not clear on whether the USB also sends & receives midi signals In & Out of your computer…though I would have ‘thought’ most modern midi routers do, but didn’t specifically read that(?) If it does indeed do this, it’ll be an ‘option’ for you. It at least ‘appears’ to me that within the computer, you can make the necessary routing you’ll want to ‘merge’ the midi DIN Inputs of your two midi instruments, into one of the routers midi DIN’s Output, as you desire.

Having a router in general will make your midi life much easier anyway, and since you at least have two midi instruments it’s a good investment & will expand your midi abilities.

TIP; You may want to make & save a template project within Cubase for your midi routing so you don’t have to keep making the settings within the Midi Input Transformer Well I did that, especially since in my case, I had 16 separate midi channels being transmitted via one midi DIN cable. I also keep a notebook near me & write down various particulars. In addition, I have written down within a ‘text document’ for my own Motu MPT AV’s I/O’s (what devices I have plugged into & out of), and keep that on my desktop. It get’s confusing with several midi instruments, external midi sound modules, and computers that I use as dedicated external VSTi sound modules. I would have gone completely insane without using midi routers.

Anyway, good luck & have fun! Hope to hear you saying “Daem, it works!”

[MickeK]

Daaeeem, IT WORKS!

No problem at all. The interfaces MIDI Outputs are identified in Cubase by the USB connection. Drums in one and keyboard in one. Perfect. Mission accomplished - at last… Thank’s again / Micke

[SYNC]

Lol, right on, great news The way you’re feeling now may be similar to how I felt when I finally got a midi router… things were so much simpler, and I wondered how I got along without one. This was especially true after obtaining more midi devices.

Using USB into your computer instead of the midi DIN to your sound cards midi IN I see… as long as it works without glitches, that should give you more midi I/O options… if you should need it.

Does the routers USB midi directly into your computer now provide direct I/O access/separation to your midi tracks ‘without’ the need to use/make changes within the Midi Input Transformer for each track?

[MickeK]

Not the USB instead of DIN cables, the USB-connection provided access to new MIDI ports from Cubase. The DIN cables are connected as well, two IN to the interface and one OUT to Sound Card. Just as you say my guess will be that as the two tracks in question are seperated already to one MIDI port each make filthering unnecessary but I kept it and now then I’m familiar with it it can stay as long as it works.

[SYNC]

Cool, thanks for clarifying that. In my own experiences, filtering never became a necessary thing to learn, as transmitting from different channels from my instruments gave me separation. It wasn’t until I used two computers, transmitting 16 racks/channels of midi via one midi DIN port/cable that I had needed it. At least now you know how to use it when needed .

[SOLVED]

Jam on!