Though I’m absolutely loving C6, one thing that is driving me nuts is the new lane behavior for midi tracks.
Though the way it works makes total sense for audio, it makes (imho) no sense for midi and the new way it displays midi lanes now actually makes my session a lot more disorganized.
I often have multiple midi takes on one channel, for either playing additional parts to the same midi channel or if channel is set to any, to play multiple parts of a chord (with each part going to a separate midi channel).
The old style display was perfect for this; in what I remember being default mode, one channel would show multiple midi parts above each other for the vertical height/size of the midi track. So setting the track size to 2 rows would show two midi parts, and muting/clicking would behave as expected.
With C6, the default setting means parts are on top of each other, and at a glance I can’t see how many parts there are on one track.
To make things worse, setting it to lanes enables a mode in which merely selecting parts can unmute them (but oddly enough not ‘re-mute’ them again).
Though I can somewhat understand this for audio tracks, since only one audio part can play back at a time, this is simply not the case with midi and therefore this new lane editing/playback behaviour should have never applied to Midi tracks.
Please bring back the old lanes modes/behaviour to midi tracks, so that all is well again in our midi world, as all the other new midi editing tools are simply superb!
Hi jorisdeman,
I have issued a report to the respective departments about workflow and usecases with relation to the new lanes system. For comping the optimized workflow with the automatic mute and cut on all lanes behavior “feels good” and is helpful. There are however usecases that this community would like to have covered and optimized as well:
Event Layering
Nondestructive Overdubbing
Quote FunkyDrummer:"
ADR work (dialogue replacement)
drum part composition
piano chord and topline melody writing
sample triggering (building up layers of FX)"
Please be aware that when you record in “Mix stacked (no Mute)” you can cycle record and the stacked events will not be automatically muted for the recording session. Still the automatic mute behavior remains when you edit.
Independent lane cuts:
Independent lane cuts: Press 2 to select the object selection tool–> click on lane where you would like to cut–> press Shift+X to cut.
Avoiding automatic muting:
Hold Shift and select your events
Press Alt+M to Unmute/Mute
Constraint direction:
You start dragging the event down to a new track and hit ctrl during the drag. If you click ctrl before the drag the audition tool will be selected.
Though the way it works makes total sense for audio, it makes (imho) no sense for midi and the new way it displays midi lanes now actually makes my session a lot more disorganized.
The comping optimized workflow enhancement in the new lane system has been criticized as uncomfortable or unaccustomed for some audio usecases from some users as well.
I often have multiple midi takes on one channel, for either playing additional parts to the same midi channel or if channel is set to any, to play multiple parts of a chord (with each part going to a separate midi channel).
It is very useful information for everybody if a user explains exactly his workflow and the usecase. If it is possible you should elaborate further and in great detail (keycommands) on how you work and why you do so. If this is not the case the person that is reproducing your issue must assume how you work although it could be more clearly defined.
The old style display was perfect for this; in what I remember being default mode, one channel would show multiple midi parts above each other for the vertical height/size of the midi track. So setting the track size to 2 rows would show two midi parts, and muting/clicking would behave as expected.
The automatic muting is an obvious occurrence. Why exactly is the lane display not “perfect” for your needs? Did you already search the command list for “lanes”?
There is
“Toggle Lanes active”–> This will toggle lanes on/off for all tracks (no Keycommand assigned)
and
“Show Lanes”–> This will toggle lanes on off for all selected tracks (no Keycommand assigned)
You can select multiple lanes and select Alt+Down/Alt+Up to Zoom track heights of the selected tracks.
These are some commands that can give you more overview but there are of course more.
With C6, the default setting means parts are on top of each other, and at a glance I can’t see how many parts there are on one track.
I’m not sure that I’m with you here, but in Cubase 5 you could also not see how many events where on top of each other if the lanes where deactivated. You can press on the little triangle on the lower section of the event and a list will show you all events that are layered or overlap without activating the lanes. If the lanes are active in Cubase 6 you can select them in the track list and make them smaller and more overviewable with Alt+down. “Preferences–> Event Display–> Show Event Data On Small Track Hights” might be related to appearance here.
To make things worse, setting it to lanes enables a mode in which merely selecting parts can unmute them (but oddly enough not ‘re-mute’ them again).
Yes, automatic muting in lanes has been criticized. There are however several ways of muting and unmuting events for the above mentioned usecases with ease and comfort.
Though I can somewhat understand this for audio tracks, since only one audio part can play back at a time, this is simply not the case with midi and therefore this new lane editing/playback behaviour should have never applied to Midi tracks.
It is not true that “only one audio part can play back at a time”.
Please bring back the old lanes modes/behaviour to midi tracks, so that all is well again in our midi world, as all the other new midi editing tools are simply superb!
This is a vague conclusion of your post and an undefined request. There is no defined variable called “old lanes modes/behaviour”. There is more to it then just an old and a new.
The best way for a user to make his points and to provide usable information to the engineers and planners is to explain the usecase and his workflow and to conclude with the problems he faces. Very often I see users taking less constructive approaches to outline there needs and problems and in the end the situation is not even clearly defined. Good requests explain a way of working to imply the user’s need. Bad requests explain the users needs or criticize a function to imply his way of working.
In response to making a point to engineers,my use case is that the new lane behavior sometmes makes for a confusing window. Especially when opening a song started in Cubase 5.
The needs to be a Global Lane Close button so you could shut all lanes on all tracks that have multiple lanes and get your bearings.
This would be the biggest improvement to me. Otherwise I like the new lane approach.
As I mentioned in another thread about this issue the changes have totally ruined my work flow so I would support a system that would allow the old style to be toggled back in
In this mode, it shows the midi parts above eachother, scaled to the height of the current track.
Parts are not muted or unmuted when selected, and the user can immediately see and select/edit the parts on the track.
There are a number of benefits to this mode:
-part height scales with track height
-instant overview of amount of parts on the track
-easy to record multiple parts to one track, say one for notes, one for a midi controller and another for additional midi controller or notes.
In addition, if the midi track is set to ‘ANY’, each part can be set to transmit to a different midi channel, in a way allowing one midi track to control 3 trumpets in divisi (trumpet 1 on midi channel 1, trumpet to on channel 2 etc.)
-screen estate; it takes up a lot less display space than lanes mode.
Here we see a similar setup in C6.
In order to see the same amount of parts, we switch on lane mode.
There are a number of problems with this mode as shown here:
-takes up way more screen estate (imagine this on a session where you want 100+ tracks to operate in lane mode the way N5/C5 did it!!!)
-merely selecting parts can unmute them, which is terrible when you’re just trying to select tracks.
-since all midi parts can play back at the same time, this mode doesn’t make a lot of sense.
-more about screen estate; as you can see it keeps the height of the track and in addition adds the lanes
For the moment I’ve jut gone back to a track per midi channel, which is a shame, as I always found the ‘classic’ way of lane handling in N5/C5 was, at least for midi parts, pretty perfect as it was.
Hope that gives a bit more info…
Cheers,
Joe
ps: images exceeded 700 width, so posted links instead
Don’t know if there is any official words from SB on this one. But hopefully we’ll get the C5 behaviour back (in ADDITION to the new C6 lanes. Loving the new lanes for drums comping ).
I can only give the advice again to any user that might join this thread to outline his workflows and the respective usecases in order to provide meaningful information to the respective departments. By this you can assure yourself that your way of working is considered and viewed if lanes should be addressed.
Screenshots, videos, cpr’s etc. can help you to make your way of working more clear to others.
I voted in the poll to bring back the old behaviour, but didn’t really comment much. However, here’s my ways of working:
I work with multiple midi tracks all playing at once. Usually for a few reasons:
a) To add sustain pedals in a separate midi part (or other controller data that may move, like leslie switching)
b) To duplicate tunes say one octave up (strings say) - in this case I create a ghost midi part under the original and I apply a +12 shift to the ghost, then I only need to edit one midi part and one midi note to maintain the unison octave - it’s very quick when I’m short of time
c) To keep bass notes separate from the upper right hand chords - say to control the volume of cellos more easily in an orchestral split
Comping ad-libbed audio. I very often ad-lib vocals (or solos) across a loop and the I’d be wanting to chop out and mark the best and worst sections.
Sloppy vocalises who don’t sing the same thing across takes - very often I’m making timing adjustments between different takes by sliding the parts around. I this case I need completely independent movement, cutting, etc to achieve what I’m after
Hope this helps to understand how I’ve been using the lanes.
To make myself a bit more understood, I’m not advocating to just ditch the new lane system for the old one completely.
All I’m saying is that though I think the new lane system looks fantastic for audio editing, the lane system in general imho shouldn’t be a ‘blanket’ approach that covers both midi and audio.
I understand that SB wants to make the differences between editing midi and audio as seamless as possible, but the ‘old’ lane system on midi tracks is a typical example of something that works fabulously on miditracks but not so much on audio, where the ‘new’ system makes much more sense.
So I’m very much in favor of having the old system be a preference just for midi tracks…
I also do this a lot… I record notes in one midi part, and record pitchbend / modwheel information in a different midi part. This makes it easier to adjust the position of the controller data in relation to the notes, without going into the midi editor and moving the data points. The auto muting and cutting of the new lanes interferes with this process.
Sorry, not been reading that closely but did notice the following tips - they’re no good to you because…?
Quote:- JHP Independent lane cuts:
Independent lane cuts: Press 2 to select the object selection tool–> click on lane where you would like to cut–> press Shift+X to cut.
Avoiding automatic muting:
Hold Shift and select your events
Press Alt+M to Unmute/Mute
Constraint direction:
You start dragging the event down to a new track and hit ctrl during the drag. If you click ctrl before the drag the audition tool will be selected.
Are there “default settings” options for the new lane behaviors? I’d like to track Audio/Midi with the Lanes folded. Then unfold only when I want to comp or edit. I understand the new lanes are great but having them unfolded after EVERY recording is slooowing me down.
Thank you puma. I am aware of these workarounds. But JHP stated in this thread that he wants to know about different use cases that are “affected” by the new lanes system — that is why I posted this use case here, so it can be added to his list of “scenarios under which it is not helpful to have all the lanes linked together”
For me the issue mainly occurs because of instrument tracks. I had a long period out of music but had used Cubase years ago. When I returned I went back to the way of loading an instrument and then assigning tracks to it. With that I could cut and mess around with lots of midi tracks at will. But then I discovered instrument tracks and the large benefit they have and started using them all the time and using the lane system to basically imitate having multiple midi tracks using 1 instrument. Finding instrument tracks and the ease of use of the lane system was a revelation and has been my way of working for many years - perfect. Then with C6 this is removed and now I have to go back to using multiple midi tracks feeding 1 instrument and lose all the benefits of instrument tracks.
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