Please completely drop support of VST2.

Steinberg Lounge
#1

The whole industry’s attitude towards VST3, while being unchanged since the recent 10 years, is becoming more and more problematic, regardless that such attitude from Native Instruments (who refuses to give VST3 a fk constantly even if developing Kontakt 6) is not blamable due to the nature of humanity.

VST2 plugins are nightmares to Steinberg Dorico, which is my main app for music composition and arrangement. Native VST3 plugins runs fine with Dorico 3, but whitelisted VST2 plugins (including some VST2 plugins renamed as VST3) and certain universal-SDK VST23 plugins (like plugins generated by Maize Sampler) can let Dorico crashes like a hell after once successful load. Everytime you start your system and run Dorico, load a plugin like that, it runs fine until you want to turn off Dorico, and you will see Dorico hangs. Then you will find that Dorico is not runnable until you restart your system.

I guess it really is the time to let the Cubase / Nuendo / WaveLab product line give up their support of VST2 with no exceptions (like whitelist). Otherwise, plugin vendors will never surrender. NI surrendered to AAX format because AVID dropped RTAS support since Pro Tools 11.

#2

Yeah I’ve been waiting for NI to give us VST3 for a while now. You’d think they would want to take advantage of the newer technology. But the updates are getting slower and slower. Maybe they’re putting all their resources into Komplete Kontrol keyboards and Maschine.

#3

If Steinberg were to drop support for VST2, their Cubase sales would immediately drop to zero. Avid was able to switch because there was no other RTAS host that users could switch to. For most users, the difference between VST2 and VST3 is insignificant.

I’m not familiar with the details of the Dorico problem you’re describing, but I seriously doubt it has anything to do with something that is inherent in VST2.

#4

Dorico team is less likely to do anything more with VST2 (except official compatibility works with NotePerformer and Kontakt).
If you doubt this, go to the Dorico subforum and post your doubts there: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=246

#5

It’s no different in Cubase. The Cubase team hasn’t done anything with VST2 for many years. There are no inherent flaws in the VST2 protocol that prevent it from working.

#6

Please stop giving your assumptions before your confirmation with both development team, period.
Until you finish this confirmation by receiving their replies to you, I don’t want to see your further replies in this thread.

Update: You are on my foe list in this forum, so your posts will be auto-hidden on my side.
Your professional background cannot support your assumption, even your background gives you greater probability of hitting the fact.

#7

I beg your pardon? I’m quite familiar with VST development. I think this might be a language problem. If so, I apologize for not understanding what you are trying to say.

#8

Well if you can’t see Glenn0’s posts, you probably missed this reply from him.

I beg your pardon? I’m quite familiar with VST development. I think this might be a language problem. If so, I apologize for not understanding what you are trying to say.

#9

I didn’t miss that. I was just thinking that continuously replying to him wastes more time.
If what he said is 100% right, then what the bloody hell happened with Dorico’s general VST2 support?
Most of VST plugin issues happened on my side with Dorico are VST2, and till now I didn’t see any similar issues with real VST3 plugins.

#10

I’m not sure what you’re referring to. You have to whitelist VST2 plugins in Dorico, but that process has been streamlined in a recent update to Dorico. Other than that, I don’t see any indications in the Dorico forum that there are significant problems with Dorico’s VST2 support.

I believe you when you say you have problems with Maize VST2 plugins. Or maybe even some other VST2 plugins. But, isn’t it more likely that the problem is in Maize than in Dorico? And isn’t it likely that problem is unrelated to VST2 vs. VST3?

The point is: dropping support of VST2 would be a huge inconvenience for many (all?) Cubase users.

#11

Not only Maize sampler have this problem, their VST3 runs well in Dorico Pro 2 but not in Dorico Pro 3 on my side.
I also whitelisted some VST2 instruments (created in HISE) in Dorico Pro 3, but every one of them troubles Dorico on my side.

Dropping official VST2 among Cubendo productline won’t make things impossible. Their users will go and buy Vienna Ensemble Pro or other routing products to mount their favorite plugins in it and use them in any DAW they already get used to. Or, they may use Soundflower and other standalone VST2 rack soft to use their preferred VST2 plugins like old hardware sound-modules / FX products. Nevertheless, these foreseeable happenings will be an encouragement for plugin vendors to make VST3 version of their plugins.

#12

Who do you think you are ? :open_mouth:

Beside telling people who doesn’t agree with you to shut up, you are suggesting out of nowhere and just for your own convenience, that VST2.x support should be dropped.

FYI, ALL the instruments I am using are VST2.4. To name just few : Emulator X3, Alchemy, Sylenth One, True Pianos… They are perfectly working with Cubase 10 and sorry, but NONE of them has a VST3 equivalent. Dropping VST2.x support would equal for me to change my host, as Cubase would no longer be usable. Does it happen to you to think about other peoples, their requirements, work and needs, beside your own little navel ? :unamused:

#13

I think you’re confusing the fact that you’re having ‘some’ issues with VST2 plugins on Dorico with a vast majority that has no issues at all? Like me! Just because you have issues doesn’t mean the whole market should be forced to move to VST3 to ‘maybe(?)’ solve your problems?

Major vendors are quite capable of determining if their product is ‘problematic’ or not in the in the market? If Native Instruments would get word that Kontakt was getting more and more problematic to work with because of the VST2 standard? Don’t you think they would act?!

What you’re suggesting here is that because you have issues with some plugins on Dorico, the whole market should move to VST3 and that’s ridiculous?

But don’t worry, it will happen eventually. But not just because you have some issues with Dorico at the moment…

#14

Sounds like a petted little princess ranting and raving at anyone to stop eating string beans forever 'cause she doesn’t like them.

ShikiSuen, there’s a simple solution: Don’t install any VST2 plugins, and your Steinberg Software won’t load any. Solved. :unamused:

#15

Let me quote what Daniel Spreadbury talked about VST2:

So what the bloody hell are you people bullshyting for?

#16

As a plugin developer, I can tell you that’s simply not true. Steinberg would prefer to not support vst2, so it’s natural they would try to make vst2 seem unappealing, but Daniel posted a misleading comment when he attempted to paraphrase what someone in Hamburg told him. The idea that a vst3 plugin is somehow inherently more stable than a vst2 plugin is utter nonsense.

#17

Well, okay. Once trial licenses of Dorico Pro 3 become available, feel free to test your VST2 plugins with it (whitelist them first) on macOS (at least 10.14.6). I would like to see your test results.

#18

Many Cubase/Nuendo users rely on a mixing environment with lots of plugins which are not available as VST2 and in other cases VST2 versions from specific vendors actually work reliably while VST3 do not.
While VST3 is preferable, it is not always possible to switch. To discontinue VST2 now would be a tad too bold.

You should really ask the instruments’ devs to update to VST3 the instruments you need and give you a choice, rather than ask Steinberg to take it away from anyone else.

Locking this before it further degenerates.

#19