I can’t agree with that. Yes you can do it, but you have to select with the range tool first. If you’re selecting a large file or needing to be precise among other clips that isn’t really useful, or expedient.
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Yep, the issue with this change is that it was purely implemented to try and appeal to Pro Tools users. The event gain node in the middle / top of the events has been a staple of Cubase functionality and workflow forever !
The issues with the new implementation are:
(1) The new gain fader acts more inconsistently when zooming out, it disappears entirely on the events at certain zoom levels whereas the gain node in the top / middle would still be easily accessible.
(2) The new gain fader is located in the bottom left of the events where it is natural for the user to click and drag to resize events, now users are susceptible to making more mis-clicks when handling events which is frustrating.
The fact that Steinberg didn’t implement a “Event Gain” settings in the preferences for users to decide what option is best for them and their workflow (considering that the gain node in the middle / top has been part of users workflow forever) is just plain ignorant in my opinion.
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Agree. I know many people like the new volume slider. But there’s a lot of loyal Cubase user (I started from SX) and we all developed this muscle memory on using the middle event gain control. TBH, I am happy Steinberg add “Protool-ish” volume drawing tools, however as a long time Cubase users I liked how quick and precise we can use the middle gain control with slicing event to get the job done very fast in fashion while having total control at the same time. And as I know a lot of pro do things in such way.
Come on Steinberg, give us a choice!
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Agreed. The old slider is better for me, too, overall.
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…choice, would be the smart marketing way to go considering all the variables. Is this very difficult to do in the coding??
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It’s a clear oversight from Steinberg. I produce electronic music and I make hundreds, if not thousands of audio event edits in each project. The functionality of the new gain slider in the bottom left is un-acceptable. I feel so strongly about it that it’s a deal breaker for me.
Steinberg needs to implement a preference in the “Event Display / Audio” section, for example:
Audio Event Gain:
- Top Middle
- Bottom Left
- Both
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Here’s a very clear demonstration between Cubase 13 and Cubase 14 event volume handling.
In Cubase 13, when in cursor mode, event volume handler will be shown when mouseover, and even on tiny zoom out events. This is very useful when doing quick group editing in drums, group vocals or manual de-essing, without changing to range tool / changing zoom level. Max gain is not limited to 6.02db
Cubase 13:
However in Cubase 14, only bigger events are showing the volume handler. Sure we don’t have to do mouseover to show it, but honestly it is less convenient compare to Cubase 13. And if we use the range tool, the max gain is limited to 6.02db.
Cubase 14:
IMO, using the range tools to change volume is not equal to event based volume. If you are familiar with Cubase file management and event management. Event gain is prior to Volume curve. That’s why I think the new volume slider is actually running backward. It is not improving and maybe even confusing to newer users.
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Thank you for your in depth post and visual demonstration. Your post demonstrates exactly what I have been complaining about.
The bottom left gain fader disappears completely at certain zoom levels whereas the previous gain node at the top/middle of the event would still be present and accessible. This is un-acceptable behaviour of the new bottom left gain fader. Just imagine how this negatively impacts a users workflow who primarily deals with electronic music, projects consisting of several hundred tracks and performing thousands of audio edits in each project. It’s a clear oversight from Steinberg.
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I have found that sometimes the handle doesn’t appear at all on crossfades- as can be seen in the screengrab
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The more I use the new event gain controller the more I hate it. It slowed down my workflow and edit work significantly. I really cannot understand why Steinberg decided to change it. Upper middle node was a Cubase signature way of controlling gain. I believe that like me many users have been using it for years and we all have almost muscle memory to control the gain. The new method I believe was only to please users switching from Pro Tools. Please Steinberg give us at least option to choose which method we can use in settings.
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Yes we need the event gain node back at the top/middle. At the very minimum Steinberg needs to change it so that the new bottom left gain fader does NOT disappear at certain audio event lengths. It needs to remain visible and accessible to the user for as long as possible. Imagine being a electronic producer who is creating thousands of audio event edits and has to zoom in every single time you want to make a gain adjustment…It’s a clear oversight from Steinberg.
Ultimately the best solution is to re-implement that top/ middle gain node and a new preference setting under “Event Display / Audio” section, for example:
Audio Event Gain:
- Top Middle
- Bottom Left
- Both
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Absolutely, they are ruining my daily workflow…
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I didn’t mind the idea of moving the gain change but now that I’ve worked with it for several weeks I realise I much prefer the previous method (centre top of the clip) so I would vote for either changing it back or having the option.
In my personal experience-
- I appear to be much more inaccurate with it - a slight movement causing big changes whereas I could easily gauge the movement from the top of the clip. It’s way more fiddly - probably as it involves the mouse click and hold.
- the gain icon on the left seems to disappear too quickly when things are only relatively zoomed out, especially when there are crossfades. This would only happen when it was in the middle when everything was tiny,
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I agree that the more I use C14 the more this gets in the way. It disappears at larger zoom levels than the former handle did, and there’s something about it that just slows things down for me. It also isn’t as accurate for fine-tuning. I thought I would get used to it, but after using C14 every day for hours since its release on day one it’s definitely slowing workflow down, which is frustrating.
I think it’s imperative to give us the option for the former method in the next update.
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But unfortunately the node at top/middle simply wouldn’t work with the new design of static clip gain and dynamic volume curve. Any notion of a horizontal white line across the event to indicate static clip gain is now gone. This means changing the usual muscle memory moves (which admittedly is not ideal).
With the new static clip gain and dynamic volume curve design, it helps to keep in mind the following:
- static clip gain and the dynamic volume curve are two different event volume change tools. They effect volume changes in slightly different ways and can operate in combination or independently in order to achieve the desired result.
- basic clip gain adjustments can be achieved with the lightning fast key commands for increment/decrement event volume. In this case, to change the clip gain, you’d simply select the event and press the shortcuts as appropriate.
- there is only a single white line volume curve. This white line curve is now exclusively for the dynamic volume and NOT for the clip gain.
- if you want to adjust the level of the dynamic curve you can now use the range tool for broad strokes and the pencil tool for detailed editing.
- when a range selection is made, the focus of the increment/decrement event volume key command automatically switches to the selected range so you can make detailed volume adjustments to specific ranges along the curve quickly and efficiently.
- you can of course select the whole of the event with the range selection tool and use the increment/decrement key command to adjust the volume of the whole dynamic volume curve, and this without needing to reach for the top/middle range selection node.
IMO it’s not really a complete oversight. As mentioned above, for the fastest way to make clip gain adjustments you can easily use the key commands for increment/decrement event volume instead of the mouse? If you need to see the actual volume adjustment value you can still view and edit the value for the currently selected event on the infoline.
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The issue is more about the accessibility, not the “white line”. If the white line is the issue and we want to talk about the white line then I would propose these suggestions:
-
Audio event volume curves used to be blue in colour. Implement a preference setting so that the user can customize the colour of volume curves.
-
Implement the gain fader into the top/middle gain node. This would address the issue of the white line.
-
Make the bottom left gain fader visible and accessible at all of the same zoom levels / audio event lengths as the previous event gain node in the top/middle. However I personally don’t like the bottom left positioning because it’s located too closely to the audio event sizing handle.
Yes, this is one issue and could be better.
But for accessibility why would you want to fiddle with getting to a top/middle handle or the new lower left handle anyway? For small events and awkward zoom ratios why not simply use the increment/decrement event volume key commands, as I suggested above? You also have the clip gain value available for editing on the infoline.
By the way, I only mentioned the white line because there is now no white line for the clip gain. The white line is now purely for the dynamic curve. In this regard, it’s all too easy to get confused when comparing the previous and the new implementation.
Not sure what you mean by this. In the new implementation, there is no white line for the static clip gain.
AFAICT that wouldn’t be graphically possible.
Agreed on that. It’s a juggling act.
Don’t get me wrong, the new implementation is not ideal and the old mid event gain node may have had certain advantages, but it probably wasn’t ideal either. There are at least some workarounds for your particular workflow. Using key commands is probably the fastest way of achieving results if speed is a concern.
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Thanks for this info @stingray , great info!
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This has been the workflow in Cubase forever. You may think it’s “fiddly” but for the majority of us here it was functional.
It’s a decent suggestion but not a solution. Firstly the Audio - Increment Event Volume and the Audio - Decrement Event Volume key commands need to be assigned to the keyboard. Secondly, even with lots of experience and built up muscle memory, users still often need to look down at the keyboard to locate key commands. Thirdly, incrementing and decrementing the audio event volume with a key command requires more key strokes and if you hold down the key it will be more susceptible to overshooting the desired level. Now multiply these actions by hundreds or thousands and all of a sudden your doing thousands more key strokes, overshoot adjustments and time wasted looking down at the keyboard.
Are you referring to the “Audio Event Volume Curve” when you say “Static Clip Gain” ?
You’re argument was that the previous audio event gain node that was located in the top/middle, that its white line would now overlap with the new Audio Event Volume Curve white lines right ? This is why I suggested for Steinberg to implement audio event volume curve settings into the preferences to allow users to customize the colour and line width of the new audio event volume curves as a solution to the overlapping white lines.
Additionally, I would also be satisfied if they replaced the white line with a decibel db text readout.
The more I think about it, the more I start to understand that the new gain fader in Cubase 14 does need to be located in the bottom because of it’s new functionality of being able to increase gain aswell as decrease gain. There needs to be room to drag the mouse upwards to increase the gain. But the problem still remains where the gain fader completely disappears at certain zoom levels / audio event lengths when there is still more than enough room available graphically within the audio events for it to still be visible and accessible. This issue still needs to be addressed and fixed.
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No, they’re two different things. Please read my first post above where I tried to explain that these are two different things. Confusing the two is a common misunderstanding of the new implementation.
No, that’s not what I was implying.
There is now no white line for the clip gain and changes to the clip gain do NOT have a graphical effect upon the volume curve. They are separate in the graphical sense.
- by static clip gain (or simply clip gain) I am referring to the overall clip gain which can be applied using the widget at the lower left corner of the event (range -60 to +24dB).
- by dynamic volume curve (or audio event volume curve) I am referring to the white curve line you see in the display of the event (range -60 to + 6dB).
These are two different things. They both have an effect upon the audible volume of the event but how you visualise them in the UX is different.
- When you change the clip gain using the widget at the lower left corner of the event you will see the waveform within the event become lesser or greater according to the gain you apply. Changing the clip gain has NO VISUAL EFFECT upon the white audio event volume curve.
- When you edit the dynamic audio event volume curve you are changing the shape of the white line of that curve according to various manipulations you make with the range selection and pencil tools. This changes the white dynamic volume curve within the event and also changes the appearance of the waveform accordingly.