Yes, I tried that for a while, but it’s still a detour to compensate for a non-existent function. We go up 6 DB the clip (what about my 798 clips?, or just the 437 that require detail adjustments?), and then adjust blindly, pretty much. I understand your concern to help me, and it’s kind, but if we were 10 years behind the times and the other Daws had nothing better, we’d accept it. I think Steinberg needs to get up to speed with the other DAWs on this clip gain function.
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Super-annoying question, but: Why do you need to have detailed information about those points? Only time I use a cursor to change values and want to see what it is exactly is if I’m adjusting a whole mix / stem to conform to loudness standards. But every single time I automate that tight to syllables (for example) I’ll just ear-ball it…
I give up.
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I’m on the same page here. Pro Tools clip gain (or volume envelope) is far superior to what Nuendo does now and could use an update.
We’ve got clip gain (allows for positive gain) but event envelope which is very useful does not and you’re stuck with workarounds. What is wanted is having both clip gain as well as being able to use event envelopes if needed and allowing both positive and negative changes showing delta etc.
For those not understanding the request please check Pro Tools® 10 ‒ Clip Gain Overview ‒ Avid - YouTube
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Homie, I don’t disagree with your request. I wouldn’t bother me if the feature was there. I’m just curious why the detail is needed.
Most of us probably understand it just fine. I was on PT about 90% of the time for a decade and a half so…
Right there with you. I use clip gain envelope in Studio One (I use for music) constantly and it is inplemented so well.
I NEVER use it in Nuendo because it is frankly awful to use. (to clarify I use clip gain all the time, but not clip gain envelope with the pen tool)
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I use the PT ‘trim’ plug-in all the time. I wish N12 had one. Matching gain between stages. Boosts and cuts. Great when dealing with outboard gear.
Sorry if that felt unpleasant , my reply was not intended to be so. I don’t know what was unpleasant for you but again this was unintentional.
More on topic, i’ve been using PT for 10 years as well (in post) and only use Clip Gain in it for leveling dialogue or clips. I’ve had tried the line that you describe but felt it was to fiddly and also got complaints from mixers. They want volume automation, that they can rewrite or remove with ease.
In your case it sounds like you really need it, but for me editing syllables is something I do with other tools in N12. It is described by others on this forum much better than I can.
It suits my needs and maybe you can try this method as well. If it’s still to crude than it seems like N12 indeed could use an update for this.
Link:
https://forums.steinberg.net/t/breath-reduction-macro/
This is a topicnon breath reduction but it can be also be used on Xhosa clicks, so sylables should work as well.
Exactly that. Thank you for your support.
We all read our DAW manual here, and know the Nuendo interface. But let’s forget it. Have a nice day!
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I just bought DeBreath from Waves out of curiosity, but on the thread you point to there are also comments that the cuts are inaccurate and require a lot of manual adjustments. I’ll see if this can be corrected on the settings, but I also prefer to adjust manually at the start. You get used to doing it quickly. But for that you need an efficient clip gain.
Some people, by the way, are tempted to cut the clip area and raise or lower the gain of the new clip, but I try not to segment clips unnecessarily. Endless crossfades aren’t my thing. And it’s CPU-intensive, by the way, as indicated in the manual (much more so than volume automation - which is what clip gain is at clip level).
(Translated by Deep)
I have used DeBreath. It can be useful, but the experience varies. Definitely requires checking and tweaking of the settings. Suitable for lower budget work where there’s not enough time to do it by hand. If it gets 90% of them right, you can always disable the plugin for the remaining 10% and do just them by hand. How well it works varies by speaker, speech pattern and recording quality.
Agreed. Event based volume change using the Draw tool could be improved to include a written indication, and boost as well as attenuation. This would be particularly helpful for applying precise volume changes before the signal hits the inserts, and for cases when you do not wish to use automation.
Yes, draw tool volume changes can be used in conjunction with the overall event volume handle, but this can be clumsy when working in fine detail.
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I try to avoid posting in Nuendo, but this is the same feature as in Cubase. If we had Tooltips that gave us the values at each Curve Point of the Event Envelope (that took into account any additional Event Volume manipulation), I would consider this a major, major improvement of the already existing feature, that already works fine to be honest, but lacks accuracy available through other means.
Example: Give 6dB boost from the middle handle. Take the Draw Tool. Press down button, drag. down and right from the top left of the event. The tooltip would read 6… 5.45… 4.33… 3.2…2.45, great let’s leave it at that. Click on another point in the timeline, drag to -6dB. Hover over the first node, tooltip says 2.45, hover over the second node, tooltip says -6. I know what’s the change between two points. I then go and lower the initial 6dB boost of the Event Volume to 3, now the first tooltip is -0.55. The second tooltip says -12. I find this much more satisfying to use. (Yes, it’s a matter of insecurity. 
)
And the best part is that no new stuff need to be implemented, only a way to have the Curve Points of the Event Envelope show tooltips. (And please have them show and update themselves when dragging Event Volume up/down, mousewheeling up/down or typing in a value for Event Volume in the info-line.
I would be happy with just that, even if no other adjustment/improvement was made. I don’t know if fellow posters have higher hopes for the feature, so I apologize in advance if it looks that I’m undermining the request in any way.
Again though, out of curiosity: How does the above make it sound any better… compared to just grabbing the points and moving them and listening to what it sounds like?
Obviously it doesn’t make it sound better. It’s just that there is some confirmation to go along with the action.
Edit: I see this kind of how there are markings along the fader’s throw. Do we really need those? Can’t we look at the meters and move the fader accordingly? But the numbers are there, for one reason or another.
I understand, but it would still be a pis-aller or half-function. I think this clip gain really needs to be redone, and Steinberg, where there are programming geniuses, can do it wonderfully - at least once the need is understood.
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I agree that the pencil tool can use some improvements, but anything beyond that is a request for a specific, individual, workflow.
Clip gain (both clip gain & pencil tool) are designed to smooth out the signal before it hits any processing. That is boosting or lowering the volume of an entire clip (or section of it) and/or smoothing out breaths, sibilances & other transients before the signal hits the plugins and volume automation.
If you can’t to boost or lower sections of an event, then there is always the offline processing where you can do magic with a few well chosen Key Commands. (Range tool => select section => lower x-dB)
Sorry for being bold, but I don’t know of any engineer who relies on numbers or dB’s for balancing music. It doesn’t provide you with any information about how loud a signal is to the ears.
For cutting out breaths, sibilances and/or other peaks in a signal, the visual representation is largely enough.
Again, I have never met an engineer who mixes by the dB.
But, I repeat, the pencil tool could use some improvement in usability.
Fredo
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Ah yes. Samplitude/Sequoia has this implemented nicely as well and I dearly miss it! Hopefully, Steinberg will get this added soon.
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