Please, Steinberg, a real clip gain!

It’s called humor. It’s French (but not only) :slight_smile:

1 Like

Yes, sorry, I meant gain the clips up to get the “headroom” to then start drawing event gain or whatever it’s called an equal amount below. If it’s thousands of clips then I would figure if it can be put into an PLE or offline process you could do all of them at the same time.

I’m not arguing against getting clip gain refined in Nuendo btw, I don’t use it but I know a ton of post engineers do so I’m all for making it better. Just looking for a way to get you closer to where you need to be until it improves.

Yes, I understand and thank you. You can indeed increase the gain, for example by increasing the input or by other means. The problem is always to orientate yourself afterwards with the SB pencil. The ear is useful for the intelligence of the mix, but it would tire to do everything for lack of reference. As I was saying, Wavelab does everything right in the meantime. I also work with volume automation (track), despite my reluctance in this case. We end up working anyway. To tell the truth, various bugs (I talk about them on other threads) have delayed me more than the lack of clip gain. Kind regards.

Wow, I’ve been gone from the forums for a few months due to other work, and this debate is still stuck where it was back then without a breakthrough. :thinking:

Incidentally some of my other work included PT. I could start a long thread about PT’s absolutely maddening habit of popping up a window in a random place on your screen every time you added or changed a send. How arcane in modern UI design…

In the end it is what it is - for each of these tools.

I’ve been reading the discussion in this thread. Nuendo indeed lacks this feature. Implementing it wouldn’t be too complex, in my opinion.
I’m thinking of a simple solution where the basic line for volume automation (using the ‘Draw’ tool) starts in the middle of the clip and not at the top (it doesn’t make a lot of sense btw, and this is why I never used it even to decrease gain), allowing users to both increase and decrease the volume. This method would eliminate the need to adjust the gain of the clip upward and then compensate by dragging down the basic line, making the process much more intuitive.
MattiasNYC, visual feedback regarding the dB adjustments as we drag the points would be a great tool. This feature could greatly assist us in fine-tuning the volume automation without relying solely on our ears.
While relying on our ears is fundamental, having visual ‘updated’ waveform of the clip can undoubtedly expedite the process and make it faster, as it reduces the need for trial and error.
Additionally, it would be great if this feature allowed users to freely draw volume automation points, similar to how we draw points in MIDI CC events. This level of flexibility would let us sculpt the automation curves with precision.
As a Nuendo-only user since Nuendo 3, I’m not sure if I’d personally use this feature at this stage, but I can definitely understand the need for it :slight_smile:

You’re quite right. I’m just repeating what I’ve already said, like Sisyphus pulling up his rock on the mountain. At least I’m sometimes understood. But let’s close this post!

P.S. On Pro tools, however, these are very small things you’re talking about and I don’t see the comparison. Friendly words. Let’s not start a long joust.

Very well said and enriching. The best thing for SB would be to come up with the best clip gain on the market, with additional functions. I think SB can do it.

Ah, now it makes sense! Clip gain is like the Republican side, and the Dems want to abolish it. :joy:
Yeah, it’s like when life throws you a curveball, and you cling to what you know like it’s being attacked. Why defend something you don’t fully grasp? How did you twist this clip gain suggestion into defending your own truth? Somewhere along the way you got deceived and there’s a mischievous spirit at play.

Watching the Cubendo videos, all I see is a struggle to do something that Pro Tools handles effortlessly (one of the few things I personally prefer PT for).

It’s like trying to understand why people insist on eating pineapple on pizza. Some things just remain a mystery on this side of heaven. :rofl:

1 Like

I don’t understand everything, because of the language (I have Google translate, which has no sense of humor), but if it’s funny I’m happy. That said, you bring the thread to a close. As far as I’m concerned, everything’s been said, I’m stopping here and I’m just waiting for SB. I believe it will happen.

2 Likes

Here there one more for you :sweat_smile:

2 Likes

In this long thread, has anybody said that the pencil tool blue line clip gain thing is just absolute shite? I’m constantly trying to click on a point and just miss altogether, then it grays out the line. What a pita. Perhaps I’m not zoomed in enough? Man.

3 Likes

Haha, Rajiv! You really tickled my funny bone! :rofl: My Saturday night just got a whole lot more entertaining. :joy:
Sending lots of love your way.

Ha ha… Your comment made my coke (soda it was) come out through my nose :joy: :joy: :joy:

I rest his case… :joy:

1 Like

The clip gain function in Cubase/Nuendo is so bad… that I have never used it.
In a couple other DAW’s it works like a charm.

2 Likes

(was getting sucked in and writing and editing a long post, which in the end just covered familiar ground - better in the trashcan…)

1 Like

Uhahaha, Carvin! Thanks for clarifying it was a soda. I suppose, reading this in the morning, it’s payback time for you as I now have cappuccino bleeding from my nostrils :joy:

Who would’ve thought Clip Gain could give me such a thrill? I’m canceling Netflix right now. :tv:

Also, printing shirts: "No clip gain, no pain”.
Plus, the first 100 orders will receive a complimentary cappuccino. :coffee: :laughing:

Nevermind, at least there is awareness of workflows, and thousand workarounds, and what is being missed, and never miss your opportunity to put your mind and be persistent with your demands, that why the forum exists.
Try again….I am really interested in knowing what you had to say. :grinning:

We all get confused between the white and blue. But we still have to walk the street and reach destinations… Tell us about your crutches…

Not unfurling the whole clip-gain issue.

Top-level was - refine your workflow for the why, not the how of a particular tool. If Nuendo’s tools are different, make them work for you in context of the why.

The reason to worry about clip gain, even though volume automation can also handle the uneven spikes, is such that you do it at the beginning of the chain, so it influences all the dynamic side chains and sends as well.

To that extend there are a few things I would do different about the workflow you showcased:

On dialog tracks (film post) you often have a lot of very short events. I don’t think the Normalize function does well with that, because there’s not enough data to find the mean values. You may actually create more spikes as a result. For a dialog section that all stems from the same recording (i.e. input gain was stable), I prefer to select all those clips at once and drag up the clip gain by eye. It keeps more consistency of the source material.

It also seems you should do any clip gain adjustments before you touch dynamics, as otherwise you have to revisit them, it being that the clip gain adjustments change the picture for them.

Lastly, while Vocal Rider is a very popular plugin, it does better with a speaker’s energy trailing off towards the end of the sentence rather than short bursts of energy. One plugin that is a bit more sensitive is WaveRider TG. I’ve previously done a comparison of their respective correction curves, as you can see in this post. You might also consider PowAir. None are perfect though. Very much depends on the material and your goals.

If you are desperate for something to paint on a curve, put one of these plugins (your choice) at the top of your plugin chain. Let it write it’s automation lane to do the hard work, and then you can use the pencil to refine. It sitting at the top of the chain before any dynamics it can replace clip gain. And these (or most other tools that have an output gain automation lane) will give you 12db of headroom to raise the signal. The trade-off is that you do not see anything you do reflected in the waveforms, so you’re flying a bit more blind than traditional clip gain. You could make up for with with any plugin that writes a loudness curve - such as the external CarlityM.

All this is personal taste. You might also decided, that your dynamics and sends aren’t that detailed that doing it at the top isn’t critical for the outcome, and the volume automation is just fine. It clutters the volume lane up a bit, meaning you may have to use trim for further adjustments during mixing.

Leaving it at that. We all need to decide what’s important for the material we work with, the expectations of the end result, the budget, and our attitudes.

2 Likes

Yes that makes sense. Never tried Wave Rider. Will give it a try.