@bednwiggy how do you get these precise timings? And what is the unit? Milliseconds?
They are taken from Dorico’s application.log file, in the user settings folder (along with your key shortcuts, preferences, saved defaults, scripts, etc.)
Every command is logged, with the time taken in milliseconds.
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I did send my file along to DS a couple of days ago and am hoping he might have some insight. However, the fact that we’re all seeing numbers within a similar range indicates that these times are just the result of how Dorico processes things. If that’s true, and it’s also true that adding more “stuff” to the score (notes, dynamics, slashes, chords, cues, etc.) will slow things down even more, then it seems likely that the times I’m seeing in my original project are not unexpected. If that’s true, then I think one has to reconsider whether it is ever going to be wise to work in large projects with multiple flows.
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This is concerning. There are other reports of sluggishness on Mac scattered through the forum.
I was considering laying out A$10,000 on a Mac Studio instead of my grunty Windows machine, but now I am very reluctant, as my principal use case is Dorico. Hmm. I shall observe carefully. And you have to revert to Dorico 4? Dear me. Am I being overly cautious or negative?
My scores are not large orchestral, but they are large and complex modernist works, such as an hour long string quartet.
Are you saying there’s no point in buying any kind of faster machine, because large scores will be slow, regardless? I don’t think there’s any Mac-specific slowness, is there?
Fred’s AMD Ryzen 5950X is, from what I can gather, fairly hardcore, but Jim’s M1 Mini is still faster. Neither will make Dorico fast, but there’s a difference of seconds between the two.
DS did send me a very detailed response about the large orchestra score I sent him. He had an excellent suggestion, which is that any changes made in setup mode, like adding flows, etc., can be done much more efficiently by working from the smallest layouts. For example, instead of viewing the full score, one can switch to viewing a single part, then close and reopen the file, before adding the flow.
Having said that, he did also indicate that Dorico is just going to be slow when making some changes to very large projects. I can confirm that before I combined all 18 movements into a single file, I wasn’t not experiencing any unworkable slowness. But it also seems that VERY large multi-moment works will be extremely slow-going for the foreseeable future—at least on a Mac. I can’t speak to the Windows situation.
I would like to know what his definition of “large” is. I have 8 flows with a standard orchestra setup and I experience slowness. But when I start on a fresh flow its fast again. So the number of flows don’t seem to matter to me, just what’s on that particular flow.
I’m on windows btw
I am having the same problems at the moment… A large orchestral score of 2000+ bars. I do hope the slowness issues are a priority for future releases, because on large scores like this, it is almost unusable. I waited 20 minutes for it to create a new player yesterday… Here’s a few examples from today’s application log.
2024-09-26 17:32:28.277 [info] notifyPostCommandExecute: Edit.ResetAppearance (63714 ms)
2024-09-26 18:14:35.225 [info] notifyPostCommandExecute: Page.LockFrame (113478 ms)
2024-09-26 18:37:29.778 [info] notifyPostCommandExecute: Edit.CreateFrameBreak (67390 ms)
2024-09-26 19:03:27.674 [info] notifyPostCommandExecute: EventEdit.SwapStaves (88436 ms)
2024-09-26 19:06:25.067 [info] notifyPostCommandExecute: EventEdit.EditExistingOrEnterStepTimeInput (69996 ms)
2024-09-26 19:12:56.978 [info] notifyPostCommandExecute: Edit.ToggleLaissezVibrerTie (23174 ms)
2024-09-26 19:14:22.349 [info] notifyPostCommandExecute: EventEdit.DurationShortenByGrid (74313 ms)
2024-09-26 20:32:34.315 [info] notifyPostCommandExecute: EventEdit.MoveLeft (61574 ms)
2024-09-26 20:39:08.670 [info] notifyPostCommandExecute: Edit.CreateFrameBreak (89359 ms)
2024-09-26 20:41:12.665 [info] notifyPostCommandExecute: NoteInput.CreateComment?OpenScoreID=0&CommentAuthor=Philip&CommentAuthorInitials=Ph&CommentText=add an player for “Spoken” add it to each player layout and the score. (79296 ms)
2024-09-26 19:08:51.168 [info] notifyPostCommandExecute: NoteInput.GridResolutionIncrease (1243 ms)
2024-09-26 19:08:51.169 [info] Executing command: NoteInput.GridResolutionIncrease
2024-09-26 19:08:52.419 [info] notifyPostCommandExecute: NoteInput.GridResolutionIncrease (1249 ms)
2024-09-26 19:08:52.420 [info] Executing command: NoteInput.GridResolutionIncrease
2024-09-26 19:08:53.639 [info] notifyPostCommandExecute: NoteInput.GridResolutionIncrease (1219 ms)
2024-09-26 19:08:56.101 [info] Executing command: NoteInput.GridResolutionIncrease
2024-09-26 19:08:57.143 [info] notifyPostCommandExecute: NoteInput.GridResolutionIncrease (1041 ms)
2024-09-26 19:08:58.653 [info] Executing command: NoteInput.GridResolutionIncrease
2024-09-26 19:08:59.864 [info] notifyPostCommandExecute: NoteInput.GridResolutionIncrease (1211 ms)
what is especially frustrating is some of these aren’t even typographic operations, like adding a comment… or waiting several seconds to change the grid value. Or 70 seconds just to enter Note Input mode.
Admittedly I’m not on Silence playback template because I need to hear stuff as I edit, but I’m using Halion and Iconica, with no plugins. M2 MacBook Air, latest Dorico 5 release.
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Maybe it would be a good idea if the team included a benchmark-like project as part of the demo projects?
Like, a really large and complex orchestral work, using Iconica Sketch by default?
So peeps could try and report possible issues on a standardized platform?
B.
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I’d be very interested to see your project, @Schweinhorn. Please send it to me via email at d dot spreadbury at steinberg dot de and I’ll take a look at it. It certainly shouldn’t take 80 seconds to add a comment, even in a 2000+ bar score.
At that size, it is understandable where the latency comes from: the infinite number of positioning calculations that have to be made across that entire score. Your CPU(s) must be churning away.
You probably have heard all this before:
- Break into flows
- Break into separate projects
- Silence template
I’m working on a large symphony now and I’m barely 100mm in I already feel a bit of latency (nowhere near what your logs are saying, though).
Thanks Daniel, appreciated – I will do.