Question about divisi

When having devisi strings assigned, is it possible to make both play at the same time when inputting only one voice and then split up when adding a second voice? I really tried to find an answer in the forum an in the manual as well as trying it directly… sorry if this was asked before.

Are you placing your divisi command exactly where the voice divides?
Can you show us an image of what you have, or better yet, post a cut down version of your Dorico file showing the problem area?

I think i could not make clear what I wanted to say. In German it’s called “unabhängige Stimmwiedergabe” so it might be called “independent voices” in English (?).

Here I have two voices, each with a SWAM section for my 1. Violins. In my Score they play unison 95% of the time. So I would like to have the option to write only one line and have both VSTi instances play. Until I tell the score to play them independently.

One more reason why this could be useful is the ability to layer two instruments with different expression maps in one voice. For example I could layer my 1. Violin (SWAM) with synchronized vsl samples

I think seeing the Dorico file (excerpt) of that section of the music would make your desires clearer and suggested courses of action more helpful and applicable.

Have you tried using Independent Voice Playback?

It needs a little help, but it is possible. Kushview’s Element is a VST that holds other VSTs. So you could put both Divisi A and Divisi B VSTs in Element, and set Element up so that (let’s say) midi channel 2 goes to the div A VST midi channel 3 goes to the Div B VST, but Midi channel 1 goes to both div A and B. And then use Dorico’s independent voice playback.

For layering (unless you need to give your machine a break) I tend to send Midi to all the string libraries at once in Element, but I route the audio output of each VST to volume objects in Element which you can automate with Midi CC. That way you switch layers on and off by having a playing technique send out a certain midi cc to effectively mute them - but you can also cross fade them / adjust their relative levels in Dorico’s key editor.

Element is open source/Donation ware, but I’ve found it more stable (on my machine) than some significantly more expensive options like Patchworks.

Thanks for the reply. That’s what I have done. And now I can load two instruments and assign each to a different voice in the same staff (one with head up and one with head down). That’s great. But when I want the same voice to play both VST´s at the same time, it seems not to work. I would have to copy the first voice into the second voice.

That sounds like it could be the solution. I now take some time to translate what you have written and try it out :joy:

Thank you!

Presumably this is because you have returned to ‘unison’ with the divisi. The way I would do this is to try adding a ‘staff below’, copy the music down onto it and route this also to the second VST, then hide that staff using ‘remove staff’. I think that could conceivably give you what you are looking for.

My thought was that one might use condensing on the divisi staves when they were playing the same notes. But I’d want to see what the OP has so far.

Thank you for all of your efforts to help me. I’m aware of all kinds of workarounds with condensing and so on. But unless I misunderstood some of your advices I think what I want is not possible. Basically I want to have the same Note go to two plugins with a different expression map.
I thought it might be possible to tell Dorico to send each entered note to two “independent voice playbacks” without coping the notes into the next voice and then condensing it. It works and so I keep doing it. But I was hoping there was a more convenient way.

Okay. I loaded the plugin and managed to load multiple Instances of different Instruments. I can also make Dorico play it back. But my expression maps aren’t recognised… If I understood you correctly, that really should work. But after two hours of trying I gave up… thank you anyway. I try to find some tutorials and/or try it again in the next weeks.

BTW: would the approach you described above work wit Vienna Ensemble Pro?

@Major81

You do realize one can enter the same notes on two or more contiguous staves (divisi or not) by extending the caret to both staves, right?

divisCondensed.dorico (786.7 KB)

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Dorico often provides different ways to achieve the same result. Which you choose should suit your workflow.

Personally, I think your simplest option (without divisi or condensing), is to use independent voice playback and 2 voices.

Enter all your notes. Then, for your pseudo-unison passages: Select/Copy; right-click>paste special>paste into voice x (whichever voice your non-unison notes are in); Then go to Engrave and set the hide notehead and hide stem properties. Which just hides the notes in the extra voice that you have added.

(I think this route will minimise the possibility of collateral damage)

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Did you check that the maps are set for each of the channels in the endpoint Setup?
image

I think Vienna Ensemble pro could handle your first problem with Divisi, and it will let you layer. No complaints from me.

FWIW - this maybe be off topic. Could be me, but VEP doesn’t seem to have the midi routing capability for the kind of mix automation that I was ultimately after. I wanted to put Playing Techniques in the Dorico score that represent mix automation across several VST or VST effects; To create a “transition” between sections, to “drop” at certain Edit Point or add “soft motion” in the mix for a few bars. It works in Dorico with Element, haven’t figured it out with VEP.

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That’s the way to go for now… Thank you for the reply

I think the Problem that remains is, that I can’t use two different expression maps when writing in only one staff/voice. In VEP I can build an Ensemble with 3 different libraries and assign them to one MIDI-Port. But as long as I want to use only one voice, I have to choose one Expression Map. And that doesn’t work.

Did you just set that up to help me?

Okay! That looks just like what I want. But in the Project I cant seem to write or change the last line… I know, that I can expand the caret to both staves. But I cant seem to expand it to both voices in one stave and condense it at the same time, right?

I don’t think it’s a problem, it’s a reasonable limitation.

Only one voice can be sent to one VST (with its own expression map).
With Independent voice playback, two voices on one staff can each use their own VST and Expression Map.

How would you configure one note to trigger two VSTs, whilst also expecting, that when you go to two voices, the first will magically only trigger one VST?