Question about divisi

Ah, I was making an assumption as I used the same expression map for mine.

The feature I was hoping for is more or less cosmetically:
Imagine:

You write in only one stave marked with “unison,” which tells dorico to play every VSTi assigned (for Example VSL Violins in voice 1, Midi channel 1 and Sample Modeling Violins in voice two, Midi Channel 2). The Moment you mark a.1 a.2 gives the Order to only play the one of the Instruments. In my wildest dreams, I was hoping to be able to tell dorico to split into two voices automatically when chords are detected.

Dorico will only split if you choose a new voice. This makes sense, as there are many situations where you would not want to change sound just because a chord is detected.

That’s why it’s my wildest dream… :joy: But my actual hopes are more reasonable, I think.

Sorry, I disagree. What would expect if you split into three rather then two? How would Dorico decide which sound to play?

Yes, I set that up to show how one can write a divisi that plays two separate sounds and combines them when they condense to unison. Call it proof-of-concept. You would presumably use two violin semi-choirs rather than Vln and Clarinet. When one sets up the divisi (from the beginning), one can enter unison notes on both staves simultaneously (in Galley view). In Play, each MIDI channel of the two semi-choirs allows one to select an independent VST and Expression Map (which attach to channels, not staves).

You seem to be set on using one staff. For what you wish to hear, that is IMO not an option.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

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Thank you so much for all your effort!!!

I’m afraid I’m a bit lost in translation here.

My original hope was, that I can tell Dorico to play all assigned Instruments the same time, when you write unison in the score. But then, when there are three bars, when the Section splits up into two voices, you would write one with stems up and one with stems down, which tells dorico to let the voice with stem up be played by Instrument x and the other one with instrument y. Same when you write a.1, Dorico would only play instrument x.

As we have all explained this is not possible. And for the reasons we have tried to explain, your requirement could have bad consequences for situations where you did not want unisons to have multiple sounds (which is probably the more common situation).

As I said 2 hours ago, I have understood. But I can’t see what problem might come up with my Idea. Almost every score with divisi passages that I remember have unmistakable markings who to play or not to play (Unison; a.1 ;a.2). And usually in unison passages there is only one single line of notes written. And when there are unmistakable rules it should be something, that’s possible in a software. Also that’s the way it used to work in Noteperformer. And that kind of rule is something that I was HOPING for. But I got it… it’s not possible yet. And it’s ok.

Again. I see how it works and in the layout you can condense everything to look like I described. And it’s all logical.

Thank you for your time and your thoughts

Maybe here could be a part of the misunderstanding. The libraries I’m working with are mainly Sample Modeling and Audio Modeling, which allow small divisi sizes (in Audio Modeling 6 Players are tho maximum for a section). So in my case, unison would be the more common situation…

And apart from that. I’d love to layer two instruments in one stave (regardless if unison or divisi) and not have to open another stave with another expression map. Simply a convenience thing

(I give up!)

I think I understand you well. But you seem not to understand me. So no need to give up… for you

I think it is still possible - whether it’s a reasonable amount of work or not, that I leave up to you. Notice that you can put other types of nodes between the incoming midi and your VST as part of a graph inside Element.

So while you might only be able to use one expression map per channel in Dorico, you can insert a node in Element to translate say an incoming note D#-1 which represents the legato key switch for one library into a different Keyswitch for a different library. Simplest way, there are VST like NoteMapper which you could insert.

For your wildest dreams :slight_smile: Element comes with Lua script nodes. It seems pretty low level (and I haven’t had a need yet) but you could keep track of the number of active notes and write your own logic for routing notes in chords. I wouldn’t call the initial creation of any of this “convenient” but you can save graphs, sub-graphs and script nodes for re-use.

The first thing I would do is some quick and dirty layering to see if I actually liked the sound.

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I’ve thought about different layering options in Dorico and came to a bit of a conclusion about the easiest way to accomplish this.

Unless you are layering two libraries that are designed to be easily layered with identical keyswitches and expression maps (ex. VSL Elite Strings and VSL Synchron Strings Pro) where you can keep the programming the same, the easiest and best thing is to duplicate the entire player with all music and other details to a whole new player for playback purposes only but exclude it from the printed score. Assign this staff to the second VST library and delete any passages from it where you want the first VST library to play back by itself (or set those notes to disable playback).

If on the other hand there are some passages where you want only the second library to play back and not the first, you can disable playback for those notes in the main staff (used for printing and display for your official score).

This way you retain the ability to do CC shaping independently of library and use separate expression maps.

The only slightly onerous thing is if you start making edits to the music, you might have to copy and paste those edits to another staff, but that shouldn’t be too big of a deal since you don’t really have to worry about whether that is formatted nicely and things like that, it’s just there for playback and won’t show up on the score.

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I really think I might have to get into this. Once I have a Template I can use it again and again. Thank a very much!!!

Thanks again! That might be the best solution for now. I was so looking for Playback options, that I missed looking for divisi options introduced in Dorico 2.

The only workaround is, that you have to expand the caret in unison to make both voices play. There seems to be no way to address the second voice automatically, even if displayed as unison in both voices in the score…

Again. Thank you

Using the divisi function may work, but it has the obvious drawback that if you are using the divisi function for this, it would seem to make it harder to use the divisi function for what it is really intended to be used for within the same score. If you repurpose divisi staves for this, it may make things really awkward for you should you actually want to do real divisi staves where maybe you want both staves to play in both libraries. I would make sure that you have a solution for that first, if you think you may need that, or you may paint yourself into a corner. Making changes later to the playback could have unintended impact on the printed score (ex. adding more divisi changes that now have to be condensed etc). That’s why I like the idea of just duplicating the player, then it doesn’t matter what it actually looks like on the page.

At least I assume you want to have a score that looks correct too and isn’t all wonky due to having weird things for playback.

Instead, I would just write your whole first and second violin parts (for library 1), setup mode, duplicate player for both, now you have Violins III and Violins IV in the score along with Violins I and II. Choose VSTi and channel and expression map for the new Violins III and IV, you have instant layering without any fuss. Remove the III and IV players from the “Full Score” and you’re done. No craziness with divisi and condensing or thirdparty Kushview Element. Keep it simple. Trying to solve this problem in a perfect way could easily turn into an over-engineered mess that gets in your way more than it helps you.

At a certain point you might want to do a few tweaks that are awkward to do in Dorico for whatever reason, but the piece is 99.5% done. What I would do then is export the MIDI to a DAW, bring it in there with the same instruments loaded and it should sound the same. This will be especially easy if you use Vienna Ensemble Pro to host all the instruments and ignore the Dorico mixer, then you would be guaranteed for everything to sound 100% the same in a DAW. Then you can make whatever last minute edits are necessary in there and bounce the audio. This is useful for such things are pre-recorded runs in libraries, maybe there’s a scale run that works sound-wise but triggering it via notation would look weird because you would write one note and hear eight. Those are the sorts of things that you can do in a DAW.

MIDI 2.0 should also make a lot of this unnecessary in just a few years by standardizing the articulation and dynamics control systems across all libraries so that you could just put two different libraries on the same channel and have everything work automatically.

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That’s indeed a valid point for me!! I do that a lot when not working with NP