Question about editing fades

I’m editing fadeouts on clips in the audio montage, but I keep running into a problem:

Imagine you grab the default fade out point on the envelope, and drag to the left. You now have a fade out. Then I create another point on the envelope by double clicking on it. This way I can complete the fade-out before the end of the clip. I drag the new point down to infinity silence, but leave it maybe 200ms in from the end of the clip. Now, I grab the original point on the envelope to lengthen the fade out, but instead of moving by itself, it moves BOTH points (the default, AND the one I created). This leaves the length of my fade the same, and moves the POSITION of the entire fade. I don’t want it to move both points though. I want to lengthen the fadeout by only moving the original default point - I want the new point I created to stay where it was.

Anyway, how do I stop this from happening?


Yes, I know exactly what you mean and I don’t think there is a workaround or fix for your situation when you start by dragging the default end fade node. Once you do that, you are kinda screwed.

On a similar note, it has always bothered me that the first fade out node that is auto-created is always stuck at the same gain level as the entire track. It makes for some complicated and less than ideal custom fades.

In other words…if you make a simple fade by dragging the default end fade node from the end of the clip, over to the left, then make another node farther to the left (earlier in the song) by double clicking, you can move that newly created node up and down freely but the original node is stuck and locked at the original level, and of course if you drag the initial node to the left, all the following nodes follow it to some ration which is usually not ideal.

I wish that Wavelab could follow how Pro Tools handles drawing fade lines and nodes, because it’s kind of weird in Wavelab ever since I stared using it.

For reference, it’s the default initial fade node that always has the red outline and white center as opposed to the user added nodes that are yellow in the center, and turn red in the center when you click on them is the one that seems to cause problems.

I wish that first node that has the red outline box could just be deleted or behave different and I think it would solve both of our problems.

You could avoid the issue of the fade nodes moving by just ignoring the built in node and drawing your own fade but then you end up with the gain going back to 0dB at the tail end of the audio as seen in the attached image (with slight exaggeration for the sake of this demonstration).

That one stumped me for a long time, until I found out you could adjust the locked node level by holding down Ctrl.

EDIT: On Mac, it’s the Command (“Apple”) key

If I know or think I know nodes are going to move that I don’t want to, I put a yellow temporary marker (“insert” key on Win, “M” key on Mac) at the node, and then move the node back to the marker when I’m done. It’s a compromise, but it works.

If there are 3 or more nodes involved, you can select around 2 (or more) nodes (alt / draw rectangle around the 2 nodes) to move just those 2. But it does get a little more complicated when the original first and last nodes are involved I think.

Ok - so it’s the 1st and last nodes that are complicating things. Thank you guys for the clarification so I at least understand better what is happening. Maybe PG will consider making the 1st and last notes more freely editable… and also so the fade doesn’t permanently group nodes together in the way it has. That definitely makes fade outs difficult to make or edit.

I recognize the problem very well! What I didn’t know is that the first and last nodes can be moved with CTL+click. Thanks Bob! Though I usually use the predetermined fades from or to those red nodes, it ofcourse is complicated if an envelope is drawn after fade in or before fade out.

My suggestion would be to make it default behaviour for the red fade in and out nodes to drop or rise to the volume of the first user node that follows or precedes it.

Wow, thanks Bob. After all these years, who knew it was that simple?

I had been trying to right click that locked node to see if the menu gave me different options but hadn’t tried doing command click for whatever reason.

It’d be nice if that locked node just didn’t exist, and instead, if you wanted all the fade nodes to move together as a group, you could hold something like command to make them move as a group.

Unless I misunderstand, this already exists by just dragging the whole volume line up and down? All nodes move with it, including the fixed red ones IIRC.

Yes, I I’m speaking about horizontal behavior rather than up and down…if you want to change where the fixed/locked node is placed in time, it always moves the manually added nodes with it to some degree.

I would like that to never happen unless you hold a special command while editing that node.

The only exception I just found in this is if you use shift to select the locked node, and another manually created node only, you can move those two freely without the other manually created nodes moving…this is similar to Bob’s suggestion of using the ALT key to draw around a group of nodes.

It seems like that locked node just creates more problems and would be best if it didn’t exist unless you tell it specially to be locked somehow.

Wavelab keeps “moving” my fades instead of allowing me to move the individual node. PG, please consider fixing this as soon as you have a chance… thanks so much.

Also, a little feature request. I really like the window that allows us to select predetermined fade-outs (sinusoid, logarithmic, etc)… but there are a couple things I’d love to see:

  1. A way to make the curves more extreme. I see we have the “pure shape”, and “amplitude compensation”, etc. - but that doesn’t quite do what I want it to do. I like “sinusoid” and use that most often - but I want to be able to make the sinusoid “S” shape steeper in the middle of the fade, and more gentle at the top and bottom of the fade… even to an extreme… so I can have a super long gentle intro to the sinsoid, then a super steel slope, then a super gentle long outro to the S.

  2. I like to have 200ms or so of absolute silence AFTER the fade is complete. Is there a way to do this? I see any time I click “sinusoid”, it always fades directly to the end of the clip and doesn’t allow me to have another 200ms of silence.


toader, I think there’s some logic to this, because if you observe both points moving you should see they’re moving by different amounts, as if based on percentage of segment length between nodes for the resizing. And the length of either segment or total of segments is not the same after moving, as far as I can tell, so maybe it was something that was deemed desireable when resizing a fade-out that contains multiple points. Regardless, it’s been this way since at least Wavelab 4. But I agree, if other programs don’t treat the envelopes at clip edges that way, and allow lock and unlock equally on any point at will, and not move points when you don’t expect it, then Wavelab should default to the other programs’ behavior, with the current Wavelab way being an option. Maybe PG could explain what exactly is going on with the current 2 point movement at the edges, as far as why they don’t move equally (?)

You can make custom fades any way you like and save as presets, and even save as default fade out or fade in. Or apply the custom fade presets as needed. Just add any number of points, turn on smoothing on the right, and when it’s as you like, save as a preset.
Below are pics of sinusoid and points with smoothing.

I’m going to start using custom fades using the “smoothing” checkbox! Man… I wish I had tried this sooner. Excellent feature! I do love Wavelab :slight_smile:

The custom fades are working out really well. Very cool feature.

I do still think though that dragging a single node should never move the entire fade (which is what happens unfortunately when moving the default node) - only the node should move. The only time multiple nodes should move simultaneously, is when they are all selected.