I’ve been using pop overs for a bit now and I’m wondering why there are different pop overs. Wouldn’t it be better if there was one pop over and then you could just type stuff. Or at least not so many. It’s not like the things I’m typing into each pop over are the same (except for lyrics). Playing techniques and ornaments are so similar that I can never remember which thing is in which one.
or maybe if we could have a favourites pop over that we could add our favourite things to
Many of the commands would conflict. What would the command of the number “2” execute? 2 bars added? 2 tremolo marks? add an interval a 2nd above? There are many, many other such conflicts. The semantics have to be parsed into intuitive categories to make them manageable.
[opps, I noticed now that @dan_kreider already answered…]
I think this would make things much more confusing because of the overlapping that will certainly occur.
Here an example that maybe can explain the usefulness of separate popovers for each function, typing for example the “3” in three different popovers:
(what would happen if only one global popover exists, as you seem to suggest? How could you tell Dorico what the “3” means?)
I understand the impulse behind what you suggest, @aural_sandpaper. We all enjoy a streamlined workflow. But consider the richness and complexity of a program like Dorico for a moment, and you’ll realize why there will necessarily have to be some level multi-step entry needed to handle all that it can do.
Off the top of my head, numbers could be time signatures (Shift-M), the start of a metronome mark (Shift-T), a number of tremolo slashes (Shift-R), a number of bars to add (Shift-B), a tuplet (;), fingering (Shift-F), figured bass (Shift-G), an interval to add (Shift-I). The letter F could be a key signature (Shift-K), a chord symbol (Shift-Q), a bass clef (Shift-C), a dynamic (Shift-D).
Pretty much anything could be a custom Playing Technique or an instrument from which to Cue, or Staff Text or a Lyric.
As to the separation of Playing Techniques and Ornaments, they affect the playback of the music in different ways, so even if that’s not relevant to you (it’s rarely especially relevant to me) it makes sense that they’re treated differently in the user interface.
I’d say (to add to the excellent remarks that already have been made) that this is sort of what the jump bar is about — I confess I seldom use it because I use those popovers extensively since the beginning…
@aural_sandpaper
your idea is appealing and in a way Dorico is already handling it in this way:
Shift this is initiating the popover
Now the next (additional) key you press categorises the following, example M for Meter.
This can be followed by further keys, example 3/4.
The first letter after holding the shift key categorises and narrows down your further input. This is probably, how you imagine it?
Especially as now (I don’t recall which update made this possible, it was not to my recollection always so) you can access any item in the Script menu via Jump Bar, and even assign aliases to them. (Although after recording a number of scripts, even though they appear instantly in the menu, Dorico needs to be restarted in order for the Jump Bar to become “aware” of those, and make them accessible / alias-able.)
So it’s basically up to the end user to record any number of popover actions (perhaps something they use most often) as macros, and assign them quick Jump Bar aliases so everything’s accessed with " J" followed by few keypresses. For example, to create basic time signatures such as 4/4 and 3/4 my aliases are (J =>) 44 and 34, respectively.
I did not know about the jump bar. I think this is what I want
how do you make scripts?
To create a script that automatically creates 4/4 time signature:
One you have created a script, you will still need to invoke it. Overall you are probably using a similar number of keystrokes to invoking the popover, so nothing really gained (you would also need to remember a different script for each time signature that you use…)
Overall you may be quicker just learning the very simple, flexible and powerful default popover commands.
I’m measuring my saved time per operation in seconds. They do add up. Also, for example some time signatures such as 6/4 I want to default it to 2+2+2/4 since that’s what it is for a lot of time in film scoring and contemporary classical world. (Yes, I know that traditionally it’s 3+3.) So my Jump bar invoke followed by a couple of keystrokes is massively faster than invoking the popover and typing [2+2+2]/4 there every time.
This is not about a single operation either. It was about repurposing the Jump bar to launch actions that someone might need to use constantly from different popovers and bring all of them under a single key + few modifiers. It doesn’t prevent (and should not) using popovers, or even mousing around, for functions that are needed seldom: it’s much more efficient to concentrate in making faster the specific actions one does hundred times a day, than something they only reach for perhaps once or twice.
I think you are ignoring a huge amount of creative decision time in your workflow. That aside, if your script route saves 1 second per application, yet it took you 600 seconds to decide to create the script and work out how to implement it in the first place, then you would need 600 applications of particular time signature to get a time saving.
Personally I would rather spend 600 seconds learning how to create a vast array of different time signatures and beat options with a simple understanding of the Dorico syntax. But hey-ho each to their own…
I cannot change Dorico’s syntax, and I’ll rather not practice on my quieter days (such as between projects an easy Sunday — delivered on Friday the previous batch, start working on the next one early tomorrow) speed typing to be able to type [2+2+2]/4 faster. I’d rather spend the minute or so (no, it does not take me 10 minutes to come up with a script: I also do not create every similar script from scratch but adjust the code in LUA file directly => takes seconds to create every variation per time signature saved in the script folder) to do the script and then it’s settled for all the following projects. Hell, I’ll even have spare time to explain the workflow with screenshots over here.
When I’m working on a project that’s underway towards a deadline, most of the time I spend is on creative decisions. Because I’ve created these kinds of scripts, KM macros, templates etc. workflows in Dorico for 8 years.
As I said - hey-ho each to their own. You invested time over 8 years creating your scripts. I chose not to do so. Not much more to say, except personally, I would not be encouraging a new Dorico user to follow your path.
Absolutely. Far be it from me to force anyone to use these approaches or tools. Merely showing what is possible.
Sort of… I wish it acted as some kind of universal popover and while there’s overlap it isn’t quite that.
For example you won’t be able to access playing techniques or ornaments from it.
I agree with you, though, I feel that some of the popovers could be consolidated. Playing techniques and ornaments have a lot of similarity. Sometimes it’s easy to forget when you’re in the zone.
Other times I mix up popovers like bars and time signature and tempo, because there is logical overlap between them (as in, they all deal with the flow of rhythm and time). Perhaps I’m getting older, I’ve learned a lot of software and bounced around DAWs for years, maybe I’ve grown dyslexic, I don’t know. But sometimes my brain is thinking “I would like to change the time signature” and I enter shift+T thinking “time” and continue typing not at first realizing I’m in the tempo popover, and I needed to hit “shift+M” for meter. I mean that makes perfect sense logically, but my brain sometimes gets mixed up and I do get frustrated by it. Thing is I know the correct popover and use the software daily, but they can be easy to mix up even still.
For this reason I have wished that there would be some kind of consolidated or universal popover. Or for the jump bar to offer items available from the popovers. Even if you had to type more relevant syntax.
Some may argue that the syntax is different for the popovers, but in many ways they are context specific. So using my above example, if I entered “shift+T” and typed q=86, it’s obvious I’m entering a tempo marking; but if I entered 3/4, that’s obviously a meter. Same with playing techniques and ornaments, I feel if I were in shift+P and I typed “trill” or “gliss” it would make logical sense to connect.
or - if the syntax or context is not clear, the software could offer a popup - “did you mean”? I use keyboard maestro and sometimes if there’s an overlapping shortcut it will show you the relevant options to select from in a minimal popup. Just some ideas.
Anyway no doubt you will find the jump bar useful, but do not expect that it will offer you everything from popovers as your original post was requesting.
edit - wasn’t aware about the script option shared above though, I’ll have to look into that later.
All time is not created equal. Sometimes I’m feeling zero creative energy but plenty of motivation to fiddle around with technical things (which I find relaxing by comparison). I don’t mind spending lots of time on such things. I can’t begin to calcuate how much time MusGlyphs and MusAnalysis took me to create. Did I make up the time elsewhere? I don’t know.
By contrast, when I’m working on a creative project, it’s exhausting, and I have a window of time to get it done before one of the kids starts wailing away on the guitar somewhere in the house. Then all my compositions mysteriously start to sound like Switchfoot…
The countless hours I’ve spent customizing my workflow, both in Dorico and othe applications, are totally worthwhile if it means greater efficiency during the golden hours.
Well said, Dan.