Question regarding played / notated duration buttons

Hello there and thanks for the previous help I received regarding the fanned beams issue.
My questions:
1). When I try to create a fanned beam playback like event using the piano roll “played duration” button I then receive the impression of the original notation as a brown line under the note or where the note was originally suppose to be in its original value but I can’t move this line to fit the new “physically engraved” note duration, thus at playback, the playhead doesn’t follow the played note but instead is after the original notated note value even though accel. fanned beam is chosen. This brings up a delayed gap between what is being played / audible and what is visible. Using engrave mode to re position each of the notes is problematic in this case and I was wondering if there is a work around this (other then the hidden staff method ).
2). In fanned beam is there a way to change the angle and thickness of the fanned beams lines ( like less thick and with a slight wider angle to whatever direction)?

  1. Changing the played duration does not affect the notated duration. You could instead play around with notating these notes using hidden tuplets etc to get their notated positions closer to their desired sounding positions.

  2. Yes, you can change the distance between beam lines in individual beams (or all beams in the project in Engraving Options, which will also affect non-fanned beams). You can adjust beam angles to your heart’s content in Engrave mode.

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Thank you very much Lili for your reply.

  1. Would have been lovely if “1” could have happened.
  2. Thanks, I’ll check again for no. “2”.
  3. It is very hard and time consuming to fit notated f.b. to the playhead. A solution will be most welcomed.
    Best wishes.

Also - I am not the only composer in the world that is using … I know that there are workarounds, but from a modern computer and an operative software I would have expect a solution.
Dorico is a German software ( now don’t take me as a racist here - certainly not me ) and I would certainly expect that from Dorico, not only because of the technological level reached but also due to the advancements in the field of 20ct music composition - in this country.
I don’t see why with today’s CPUs it won’t be possible to draw in a dedicated tempo line to create an intuitive fanned beam that will not influence the overall tempo and will also hand in a notated apparatus.
Asking to much am I?

Truly most kind Regards.

You’re welcome, Ram.

Edit, after Ram expanded his reply:

The Dorico team has to balance a lot of requirements and priorities, Ram. What you want to achieve is at least already possible in Dorico, so that has to be balanced against other things that aren’t yet possible at all.

Remember that fanned beams can include notes of any beam-able duration inside them. So, you could create a tuplet that fills the duration of your fanned beam, and input notes with varying notated durations within that, and you’ll get quite close. Play around with a few different methods yourself until you find the one that works best for you, then you can copy/paste it.

fanned_beam_rhythms_example.dorico (884.2 KB)

May I also take a moment to remind you that every time you’ve asked questions here on the forum, you have received a lot of really detailed and time-intensive help, often without you providing projects when requested. Providing example pictures of notations and scores, and demo projects for particular issues, go a long way to making it easier for other users to offer advice, and for the developers to consider your examples and requests. They’re not mind-readers, as much as their efforts tend to suggest otherwise :wink:


Thanks Lili for pointing things out and I’ll take that into consideration.

// feel free to disregard reading ahead, redundancy I guess - as probably I am the only one experiencing difficulties with these issues //.

1). I am a bit worried to provide original material to the forum.
Probably very stupid on my behalf …

2). B.t.w. I do think that Dorico’s forum is a remarkable one in many aspects: the fast reply, the quality and depth of the answers, the attitude and friendly approach etc.

3a). That said I had great problems with the fanned beams issue also when I used the technique of hiding a stave it caused havoc later on in another section in the piece… I have decided to start the project all a new.

3b). The Steinberg position is very clear and supposedly logical, but this attitude is very cumbersome on account of the composer.

3c). I’ll summaries my points of view regarding this subject.

-). Unlike the simple method of drawing the tempo line to freely spread values over fanned beams , setting it manually is not very musical and sounds somewhat robotic like.

-). Using the Audible button to mimic f.b. fx will create a misposition of the playhead in relation to notation - very hard to fix this. It will also take lots of time to replace the “cubes” properly so that it will sound musical enough.

-). moving the notes in engrave mode to create a visible representation of the audible is very time consuming and will not result properly. (probably there is a way around this.)

p.s. previous discussion and an exercise :

You can always post an abbreviated project that features just a section of music that exemplifies the challenge you are dealing with at the time. Usually Daniel and Lillie can work with that. No one I know has complained here that their music has been stolen because they posted it here, although you are right to take what precautions you can.

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How to do this?
Haven’t encounter tools for this in properties.

I know - its just me being stupid.

How to recreate the example in my earlier post:

  1. Create 3-line accelerando fanned beam.
  2. Select first note in beam.
  3. Change gap between beam lines.
  4. In Engrave mode, drag the start/end handles for the beam up/down as desired.

On the topic of providing projects along with questions: as Derrek says, they don’t have to be the exact project you’re working on, they can be a completely separate, very minimal project – so long as it still demonstrates the issue you’re having or are indicative of the sort of notation you’re talking about.

If you don’t provide these projects, what you’re doing is asking the person reading your question to digest what you’ve described, search for reference examples if needed, set up a project themselves (with no guarantee they’ve done so in the same way as you), then test out what you’re describing. When asking people to help you, it’s courteous to minimise the effort required on their part.

The link you’ve provided in your earlier response is simply a link to your forum profile. I have no idea what exercise you’re referring to, so I’m not going to do anything about that. (See what I mean about making it easy for people to get involved in your questions?)

What you’re suggesting about controlling the speed of notes within a fanned beam using a kind of tempo-like drawing mechanism is an interesting suggestion, and there’s never a problem with suggesting an idea that has niche applications, but it would require dedicated development time. It’s up to the team to determine how best to use the limited development time available to them, and providing as clear an explanation as possible as to a) what you’re struggling to achieve now, b) a method that would make sense to you, and c) example pieces of music that demonstrate the notation, make considering that suggestion a lot easier. But I’ve already said this before, so I’m not going to elaborate any further or indeed again, as I trust you now understand what I’ve suggested to be the best way to share your requests and issues with the forum and Dorico team.

PS my name is spelled Lillie, if in doubt you can refer to the name displayed in any of my forum posts.


Dear Lillie - Sorry for misspelled your name and thank you for correcting me. It is very important to attend a person by their proper name.
Also thank you so much for taking that precious time to answer me specifically and in details.

I have tried your guidance regarding separation and thickness - just beautiful and worked like a charm - I enjoyed that very much :slight_smile: funny perhaps… he he…

I totally agree with you here: “When asking people to help you, it’s courteous to minimize the effort required on their part.” - I will take this statement under strong consideration on my future upcoming help request.

I am sorry that the link I have provided was for no avail ( it looked fine to me…) its simply my experiments with , I actually have dealt with this issue before but it got chaotic I started to recycle projects from the recycle bin… finally have decided to restart the project from 0, but please find attached an earlier edition of my work. Please examine how beautiful musically ( at least to my taste) are the fanned beams when controlled by the tempo line and receives dynamics properly. there is something bad going on later on - never mind… fanned beams starts from measure 98…

Regards - Rami.
Rites of Nature and Men -231022-1740 to send 250623.dorico (1.4 MB)