Hi all, I have been banging my head against the wall trying to figure out how Cubase associates tempo maps with audio files (assuming the audio is not a single, constant tempo). Hoping that maybe someone here has solved this previously or can point me in the right direction.
For starters, when creating tempo maps, I use the process demonstrated very well by Dom Sigalas here:
In short, it involves using the Time Warp tool to manually align bars/beats with points in an audio file to generate an accurate set of tempo changes on the tempo track. Following this, Cubaseās āSet Definition From Tempoā option is used to ābakeā these tempo track variations into the selected audio file. The tempo track can then be cleared or disabled if the intent is to align the audio file with a single set tempo. I understand that this is a manual alternative to just using Cubaseās tempo detection functionality, but as Dom suggests, it is often more accurate, which I need in my case.
My specific questions/problems are as follows:
When the āSet Definition From Tempoā function is used, there are two options: āSave Definition In Project Onlyā and āWrite Definition to Audio Filesā. Regardless of which option is selected, I still only see a single tempo when viewing the file in the Pool. Is the tempo map itself saved anywhere or does Cubase convert it to a set of warp markers or some other mechanism? What is the tempo value that appears in the Pool?
The āWrite Definition to Audio Filesā option is cited in the documentation and in tutorials as being useful when utilizing the audio files in other projects. However, I have not been able to make this work in practice. Is anyone else able to save a tempo definition to file, import that file into another project, and then have the audio in the new project align with the bars/beats there regardless of project tempo?
Related to the above, Is there any way to extract the tempo map thatās associated with a given audio file? Studio One, for example, allows dragging an audio file directly onto the tempo track, which then populates the embedded tempo map. I cannot find anything equivalent in Cubase, but may be missing something obvious.
Iām not sure I completely understand your problem but for what its worthā¦
I was doing the something similar the other day and found I had more acceptable results by checking both track and event were in musical mode (as opposed to Time based)
If that is then āexportedā as a separate audio event i suspect it keeps the tempo of the tempo map.
Once imported, again make sure it is in musical mode and it should follow the tempo of the project.
Sorry if that wasnāt your issue but maybe this users vid might helpā¦
Thanks very much for responding. I will take a look at the video and also do some tests to see if musical mode dictates how an audio file is exported/imported with regard to tempo map information.
The main issue Iām really trying to solve is #3 - i.e. can the tempo map information be extracted from a file and written to a tempo track? If this is possible, then I have viable workarounds for my other workflow frustrations.
Thanks for responding, but this is not applicable. As I wrote in my post, I am creating tempo maps manually and am not using Cubaseās tempo detection functionality since itās not accurate enough for my current needs.
Here is a workaround for what I think you are trying to do - not elegant but works for transferring a tempo track to a different project.
Open original project with desired tempo track. (doesnāt need to be activated)
Select the āTempo Trackā Track and select the events to be transferred - i.e.click and drag across the tempo nodes to select them
On your qwerty keyboard tap āCTRLā and āCā to copy them to the clipboard
Open new project and insert a tempo track and select it in the track list
Place your cursor on the track timeline at the top of the project window whereever you want the tempo map to be inserted, i.e. beginning of the track
On your qwerty keyboard tap āCTRLā and āVā to paste the original tempo track into the one you just created and, Voila! Tempo track transferred!
to get the midi and audio events of the new track to respond to the tempo track it needs to be activated and the midi audio events need to be in musical mode. (select each event and check āmusical modeā in the track info bar above timeline (see pic) the little squiggle tells you its in musical mode
As I said, not elegant but it works unlike the steinberg Manualās suggested way of export and then import tempo map from File Menu. That hasnāt worked since Cubase 12 from what I can tell!
OK - hope that is of some use!
Thanks for responding @Robin_S, I can confirm that the workaround that you suggest does work in terms of copying tempo track information between projects. It is unfortunate that the tempo map data is completely decoupled from the relevant audio files. I guess Iām still confused on what the āSet Definition To Tempoā function actually does if itās not associating the tempo map with the selected file. Also as you mention, the manual is incorrect and there seems to be no current way to import/export a tempo map in isolation using the File menu. In any case, thank you again for providing at least some method of maintaining this information across projects.
If you pick āSave Defintion In Project Onlyā than the tempo adaption will work in your project only but not if you export the event into another project. āWrite Definition to Audio Filesā will imprint the tempo information into the event itself and it will adapt to any given tempo in another project given that the settings in the project are set accordingly.
I do not know how tempo markers are imprinted into the files itself. The tempo information in the pool, however, will display the average tempo of an event if there are tempo changes in the project over the course of the event.
Btw, if you keep on changing the tempo in your project than make sure that the tempo information is imprinted on all tracks and keep the box checked that asks if you want to activate Musical Mode on all tracks.
Yes, it works like a charm. This is what I usually do (there are special use cases when I do it differently, but I think this is what you are looking for):
Make sure that the imported audio files are imprinted with their Tempo Definition as described above.
Set the project ruler (although theoretically independent from the Primary Time Format) to bars and beats:
and that Musical Mode on the event is turned ON.
You can turn on Musical Mode either in the pool or in the info line of your project (set focus on the event and change Mode accordingly in the infoline of the project window > make sure that the Infoline box is checked in your window settings of your Project Window in the cog wheel on the upper right).
Now, you can change the tempo in your project as you please. You can even do accelerandos and ritardandos - the events will change accordingly.
Not to my knowledge. You can import the tempo track, though.
That is totally normal. I am not sure whether Cubase displays the first tempo of a clip or the average tempo but it always displays just one tempo in the Pool.
Yes, that works nicely on my install.
Oh, thatās quite a nifty idea. Cubase does not have that yet.
Would you know how to āstoreā the CTRL-Cād tempo points so that they are available at a later time after the clipboard has filled up and the data is displaced to make room for another CTRL-C item? For example, maybe two weeks later when returning to that project, for example)?
Not in my studio so no screenshots Iām afraid and only another clunky workaround.
If I was in that situation I would open the project with the tempo track I wanted.
Create a āback-upā as this keeps all details from your project rather than just referencing the original. Delete everything on the back -up apart from the tempo track and save.
Next time you need the tempo track just load this backup and copy and paste as I described above.
I can hear purists turning in their graves (at 44.1 KHz) as again this isnāt as elegant as having a dedicated tempo track file to import into a projectā¦. but it will get you what you want - a tempo track thatās easy to get at and import.
If you are on Cubase 12 or earlier the export Tempo track should still work - check out the Steinberg manual (google it - itās faster and takes you to the right page) on exporting and importing tempo tracks in Cubase.
Hope this helps - just donāt buy a used car from me!!!
I was able to successfully reimport a tempo-mapped audio file and have it follow any project tempo by following the steps suggested by @Reco29 - thank you for that. I think I must have messed up musical timebase or musical mode in my previous attempt.
In terms of preserving original tempo maps associated with files, it seems like the @Robin_S workaround of saving separate project files/tempo tracks is the only reliable method at the moment. It is a shame that the data cannot be extracted from the audio files themselves since itās obviously there. I briefly got excited about the Audio > Advanced > āSet Tempo From Eventā option, thinking that it might produce a similar result to dragging an audio file to the tempo track in S1, but that option definitely doesnāt work as expected and does not seem to take into account any variable tempo mappings within a given event/audio file.
In any case, I hope Steinberg fixes the import/export tempo map option as this would at least give a more direct method of preserving tempo maps in case they need to be referenced or updated later.
Well, the data is actually not there. What really gets stored is a position (in samples) and a playback speed factor, with 1 being neutral speed, anything below 1 being slower, and aynthing above 1 being faster playback speed.
The audio file has its own, natural playback speed, determined by its sample rate. None of these things have to do with bpm.
The following is my assumption: when an audio event gets its Musical mode activated, its speed information (sample rate * playback speed factor) recieves an additional, second speed factor. This second one is the bpm of the project converted into something digestable for an audio file.
So if you drag an audio event onto the tempo track, it could at best only modifiy the current project tempo to be faster or slower at certain positions. Is this what S1 does? Or do you get the same tempo events on the tempo track regardless whether your project was set to 100bpm or 200bpm? Never mind, I found a video that answers this.
@mlib
Yes, thatās possible as long as there is no other tempo track yet.
The OPās question aimed at alternative ways to import tempo. Thatās why I posted @alexis ā latest findings from the Greg Ondo live stream here.
