Random fader turn downs in Cubase 13

Is anyone else seeing faders in Cubase Pro 13.0.70 (seemingly) randomly turn almost all the way down (but not quite to negative infinity) from time to time. This isn’t just a graphics glitch, but rather the volume also gets turned down, for example in the most recent case I noticed the value was -68.4 dBFS. This is on Windows 10.

Unfortunately, this has seemed sufficiently random that I’m not even sure what to suggest for trying to recreate the problem. However, it has now happened enough times, and in different contexts, that I do not think it is any sort of user error.

The first time I saw it I thought maybe I just made some kind of accidental change, though I hadn’t been working on anything that would seem to relate to the track in question – I was probably working in tweaking plugin (possibly Vocalchain) settings at the time. I just noticed that that track had all of a sudden gone silent. I think it may have been a track feeding the group bus insert I was working on at the time.

The next time I definitely recall having seen it, I was playing back a project with a group bus for background vocals, with four tracks feeding that bus, soloed. When it got to a point were all four of the individual tracks came together, playback “froze”. That is, not only did everything go silent, but the playback cursor stayed in the same place. I waited for a few minutes, and nothing changed. I eventually pressed the global Mute button (or perhaps the global Solo button) to try unmuting the rest of the tracks, and playback resumed, but I noticed the lowest-numbered track of the background vocals now had a very low fader volume. It is possible that issue happened twice (I know the playback freezing did, but I’m not positive about the fader change).

A little later the same night, I exported a rough mix of the project and was reading some web stuff while waiting for the export to finish. When I got back to the project, I noticed that that same BGV track had a lowered fader again. (I don’t know, one way or the other whether it lowered during the course of the mix or after the mix finished – the BGVs are sufficiently low in the mix that it would be hard to tell, and the parts are also doubled – i.e. 2 doubled parts to yield the 4 BGV tracks.)

This most recent time, I was tweaking plugin settings and or channel EQ settings over a period of time. At some point, I noticed that I wasn’t hearing the bass (a frozen instrument track), then looked over at its fader and saw it was at -68.4 dBFS. Note that I do not see any history entry in my MixConsole history to correspond to the value change (only my changes after that to try and figure out where it needed to be), though it is conceivable it happened far enough back to not be on the history list since I was doing a lot of changing of plugin and EQ values in short order (and my attention was on tracks other than the bass).

Note that none of these times was my track-level focus on the track whose fader changed. If that had been the case, I would at least be wondering if my Roland A-800PRO might be sending out errant fader manipulation data (I have one of its sliders set to control the volume of the selected track). Nor was my cursor over an area with a fader (to have a chance that a mouse wheel move might be coming into play). There is also no volume automation on that tracks where this has happened (and Read automation was not enabled).

This issue is particularly concerning because, short of some obvious change in volume, it tends not to be noticed right away since I’m not even working in the area where the change occurs.

Hi,

Do you use any remote device (Mackie Control, MIDI Remote…), by any chance, please?

As mentioned in my post, I use a Roland A-800PRO controller. I do have this configured through Cubase’s Remote Control facility, in addition to using it as a normal MIDI keyboard controller.

However, the only control on it configured to affect track volume is for the track with the focus, and the tracks where the faders changed were not selected when these issues occurred. Thus, even if the A-800PRO were sending out spurious data, it should not affect track volume in the manner I’ve described.

I opened up a project I’ve been working and the volume was completely different from when I closed it the night before. I didn’t notice the volume faders on my sub groups had all turned themselves down. I wrote inside Cubase Pro FB page asking for help. It was mentioned about the faders turning themselves down so I went back into my project and there I found that a group I created all the faders were turned down by over half. I turned them back up and all is okay now. Please fix this issue.

It turns out I was incorrect in my memory of what was configured in the Remote Control facility. I also had configured the other faders to control the fader level on the bank of 8 tracks. A time subsequent to my last post on this thread when I saw the issue again, where I had only been doing minor tweaks on the project, I did see a MixConsole history entry corresponding to the change in level and could undo it, and I could also move the physical fader to make a change in that level.

That said, though, I had not touched the faders at all during all of this, and the track that was affected was not the one that had the focus, though it was within the bank of 8 tracks in that area – in fact, it was the first track in that bank of 8 (I do not know if that was the case in earlier instances of the problem).

Is it possible my A-800PRO has a “ghost in the machine” that is sending out messages without being touched? Conceivably. But, even if so, it would seem odd that the pattern is to turn faders way down, as opposed to turn the to some random value.

Hearing today that someone else is experiencing this same phenomenon would seem to increase the odds that something strange is going on in Cubase 13.0.10 itself, for example writing to the wrong area that just happens to be a Remote Control parameter.

I have the same problem where the fader randomly changes volume, and also my fader jams when I click on it, and doesn’t move at all. This happens only on new projects, if I load an older project, everything seems fine. Any ideas would be great
also if I go back and use cubase 11 there is no problem at all, very strange.

Yeah, I never had the problem in earlier versions of Cubase, either – I only set up the Remote Control facility in Cubase 12, since that’s when the feature became available, but I used it a fair amount there, and only saw the issue in Cubase 13. It may be worth noting that the projects I was working on when I saw the issue had been started in Cubase 12. (I don’t think I’ve actually started any new projects in Cubase 13 to date as I’ve still got a number of in-progress projects started in earlier versions, mostly Cubase 12.)

100% , it all started in Cubase 12, I really couldn’t even use 12, it was so bad, and I still use 11 when my clients are in.

Just to clarify, when I mentioned that the projects I saw the issue on (in Cubase 13) had been started in Cubase 12, I did not mean that I saw this issue in Cubase 12. I have only seen it in Cubase 13, but was just noting that the projects where I saw it had originated in the earlier version of Cubase (just in case that might be relevant).

Of course, it is also conceivable that there is some hardware issue with my A-800PRO where it is sending out spurious data, and maybe that just started happening after Cubase 13 came out. I haven’t used Cubase 12 at all since then as Cubase 13.0.10 has been stable and has improvements that I use. I also don’t see this issue in every session, but it’s happened frequently enough, and sometimes multiple times within the same session, to be confident it isn’t just some “user error” (which is what I was thinking it might be the first time I saw it).

I haven’t used Cubase 13.0.20 enough yet to have a feel for whether anything may have changed on this front, though there was nothing in the release notes to suggest a change in this area.

Gotch ya😀
Hopefully there’s a fix soon

Has anyone figured out what causes the fader to turn down on its own in Cubase 13???

I saw this issue again yesterday. In particular, I opened the history tab in my MixConsole, and noticed a bunch of fader-level changes in one of the tracks, and I hadn’t been making any changes (nor had I noticed level changes, but the changes may have been subtle, and I was focusing on something other than the track that had the changes anyway).

After rewinding back before the changes in the history (I hadn’t made any other changes that would be in the MixConsole history), I immediately noticed that the history started getting new entries, and nothing was moving anywhere, be it on my Roland A-800PRO faders (which are configured through the remote facility) or on the UI, so there was definitely some “ghost in the machine”.

After this, I hunted down which fader on the controller would have been responsible for the track fader that was showing the changes, and I worked that up and down a bunch of times, then rewound the mix history again. I didn’t see any further entries in the MixConsole history after that.

So, what conclusions do I draw from this?

I’m leaning toward some issue that has the controller’s fader sending some kind of spurious MIDI commands, where maybe it related to dust in the fader or something, and maybe my working the fader a bunch of times cleared that up. However, another thought would be if there is some weird thing going on in the Remote Control facility (e.g. uninitialized variable) that gets cleared after initializing some data (i.e. via my movement of the fader).

I’d probably be more inclined to suspect the former, but I also never had this problem in Cubase 12, and now I’ve seen it a number of times in Cubase 13.

Have the same issue here with 12pro. What’s strange is that I never had that issue until recently. I feel like it started happening since I installed build 12.0.70. I also installed C13, but I doubt that affected C12. Hopefully there’s a fix soon. Have had to export a project several times because all of a sudden sounds are missing from the track.

I can’t say I ever saw it in 12.0.70, but I am really thinking this may be some “ghost in the machine” issue in terms of the control surface’s developing some sort of issue. In particular, the two most recent times I was seeing this, where I could see the moves happening in the Mix History in real time in the most recent time, once I identified which fader was having the issue, I moved that fader on the my A-800PRO a bunch of times, and the problem went away for the rest of a long session (and, in the most recent time, which was probably a couple of weeks ago, hasn’t returned as yet). This is really making me think that my moving the fader may have made a difference, perhaps clearing some dust in the fader’s track or something.

After not seeing this issue in some recent sessions, it’s returned with a vengeance today. Check out this screen shot:

Note the changes in the Baritone Sax track. The settings of volume to 0 are my explicitly trying to reset the fader, but the others are “the ghost in the machine”. Key things to note:

  • This is not within the bank of 8 tracks that are currently assigned to my A-800PRO control surface. In particular, note that the tracks that are in the control surface’s control are to the left of the track being affected.

  • Neither is the affected track the track with focus (which can also be affected by a separate fader from the control surface).

  • Automation reading is not enabled on the track (and, in fact, there is no automation on the track anyway).

I had been coming to the impression that this might be explained by some weird behavior in the control surface, but this latest case would seem to rule that out.

And, in fact, since going into my browser to write this message, with no transport running in Cubase or anything going on in Cubase, additional events have been added:

Capture2

I actually don’t know what the original fader level on this track was. I only set it to zero it to have a reference level I could know. (I’m pretty sure it was not zero, actually, as I am trying to blend two different types of sax samples, one of a section and one of solo sounds. The section sounds are assigned to Kontakt 7 with Garritan Concert & Marching Band, while the solo sounds, including the one being affected here, are assigned to HALion Sonic 7.)

Just from reading your last, much detailed post, it seems this anomaly is happening quite frequently…? If so, it begs the question: Did you try unplugging your A-800Pro?

As noted in my most recent post with the Baritone Sax screen shots, the A-800Pro is not applicable here as the track in question does not have a fader assigned to the A-800Pro (as seen in the first screen shot).

In my past cases, I either could see that the track in question was assigned to the A-800Pro or couldn’t be sure because I hadn’t thought to check. The cases where I did see it was assigned, and tried moving the assigned fader a few times and having that seemingly clear the situation, are what had previously been making me suspect it did involve either the A-800Pro itself or something in the Remote Control facility.

To answer your direct question, though, no, I haven’t tried unplugging the A-800Pro. Beyond serving as a control surface, it is also the MIDI controller I use for notes and such most of the time as it sits on my desk. (I use an A-88 for piano parts, but not via USB, and I occasionally use an Akai USB wind controller, but that is pretty rare, so it is usually not plugged in and wasn’t today.)

As for the frequency, it definitely hasn’t been every session (unless I just haven’t been noticing it), and I have been in Cubase for quite a few hours most days in the last couple of weeks. Today is the first time I’ve seen it on this specific project, and it is at least my seventh session on this project.

Hi,

As I can see the white line in the MixConsole, there is any Remote Device involved, maybe a Mackie Control? Set all MIDI Inputs of all Remote Devices to Not Connected, please.

Yes, there is a white line, but the white line is not on the channel that is getting the “ghost” fader movements, so it is not making the difference here. The last track with the white line is 24, while the one getting the changes is 28.

Can I just say I am also affected by this issue.

I haven’t noticed anything weird while I am within a project and tweaking things BUT there has been a LOT of times when I have opened a project and some faders will be down pretty much close to -oo levels. -65 - 50 - 45 db, you call it.

I am using Softube’s Console 1 Fader MkII and this is becoming frustrating as I need to reopen the project multiple times, HOPING that all levels will be intact before I can start working on it.

I initially thought it was a Softube Console 1 Fader issue but seen Rick having issues with his Roland controller, this points more towards a Cubase issue. Have there been any updates from the admins please on this? I see the last input was 4 months ago.

PS. I am using the latest Cubase version 13.0.40 (Although the issue has been present even before this version) and the latest versions of Softube’s Console 1