Randomly activated record enable button BUG solved in C6 ??

lokotus · May 14, 2011, 2:52pm

Hi,

is still work in C 5.5 on Mac and have a problem with the already confirmed BUG: “Randomly activated/deactivated record enable buttons” in combination with the score editor & project window. This Bug was already confirmed by “JHP Administrative Moderator” in the middle of this thread: Cubase: Music Production Software | Steinberg

Does anybody know if this bug was solved with the new C6 ??

THanks a lot,

Lokotus

Anders_Koppel · May 14, 2011, 5:12pm

Sorry, it hasn’t been solved.

system · May 15, 2011, 11:22am

I can confirm it hasn’t been fixed:

Repro (from the original C5 thread)…

Go to Preferences | Event Display | Midi and change the Default Edit Action to “Open Score Editor”.
Now add 4 midi tracks with 4 midi clips.
Double-click the midi events randomly (send midi to score) and watch how the record enable buttons react in arrange.

lokotus · May 16, 2011, 11:10am

Thanks guys, well thats very unfortunate. Normally, when a bug gets adressed, it reveices its own ID Number. Could any Admin tell me under which number I can look up this issue in future updates ???

I mean how can you possibly work with this score editor during the compositional process and have this kind of strange behaviour ??? Does anybody menage to do this conveniently ?

Cheers, lokotus

moemoe · May 17, 2011, 3:21pm

yeah this is soooooo annoying. i just can´t believe it. this bug makes c6 completely useless for me. aaaaarghhhh

JHP · May 18, 2011, 11:36am

I have received an email that brought this thread to my attention:
Reported (28701)

Thanks,
Gr,
JHP

lokotus · July 3, 2011, 11:00am

Thats great - so whats the procedure? Since I am relatively new to Cubase: Is there a high chance that a confirmed issue is going to be taken care of in a future update or does anybody put those different issues into a kind of priority order and then decide when or what problem is going to be solved??

thanks,
lokotus

ceanganb · July 4, 2011, 12:46am

It happens to me as well, I don’t know it was a confirmed bug, but it’s an annoying one for sure.

Conman · July 4, 2011, 3:53pm

This may take time to fix as probably less than one per thousand users would do this. Depends if it’s a five minute fix and any passing programmer has five minutes to spare on it.
They should really advise that the Score editor is just that. For me and quite a few others it’s always been very unstable to use Score as a midi editor.

However, read page 552 of the manual “How the Score Editor operates”.

IT makes the score from the midi info entered elsewhere. The event chain is diagrammed. The repro above seems to reverse that dataflow by adding the midiclips directly into the Score page. This may confuse other parts of the program that may see data input that may generate several options as to where it is placed or sounded.
I have always, and continued to advise others, that Score is for printing only. The only other use I can see for it is sight reading practise which is overkill for the price.
The clue to this is that the orchestral stave arrangements are done from the Project page (ie: you have to put a piano track above a bassline track to display the piano above the bass in the Score page) and NOT directly in the Score editor. The traffic is one way and the Score FOLLOWS whatever data is entered elsewhere and does not feed or drive the other editors.
Though some may desire it, and I can see their point, the design from the ground up does not point to this being stable in Cubase and I’m not sure that any fix for anyone working this way will be quick arriving.
Still, you never know.

parnasso · July 4, 2011, 7:28pm

I don’t want to be impolite but could you please stop doing this? Everytime someone asks a question about the score editor you enter the discussion and point out that people should just stop using it for composing and editing.
If you prefer not to use the score editor for these tasks, that’s perfectly fine - but please don’t regulate what other people should use (or not use) the score editor for.
The fact that it IS possible to e.g. record straight into the score editor or edit notes or add VST expression etc. should show you that maybe Steinberg did not intend the score editor only for printing. In addition, why shouldn’t we be able to make suggestions to Steinberg in order to further improve its capabilities?

For some people there might be quite a few reasons why they want to work in the score editor, at least to some extent. Please respect that.

Conman · July 4, 2011, 8:01pm

parnasso:

Conman:

… I have always, and continued to advise others, that Score is for printing only.

I don’t want to be impolite but could you please stop doing this? Everytime someone asks a question about the score editor you enter the discussion and point out that people should just stop using it for composing and editing.
If you prefer not to use the score editor for these tasks, that’s perfectly fine - but please don’t regulate what other people should use (or not use) the score editor for.
The fact that it IS possible to e.g. record straight into the score editor or edit notes or add VST expression etc. should show you that maybe Steinberg did not intend the score editor only for printing. In addition, why shouldn’t we be able to make suggestions to Steinberg in order to further improve its capabilities?

For some people there might be quite a few reasons why they want to work in the score editor, at least to some extent. Please respect that.

This seems to be the only forum where some get so ratty when they hear good advice.
That’s all it is. ADVICE so please wind yer neck in. I can’t stop you doing what you do and continually running into problems so you can carry on if you like. My advice WILL be useful to others and I’m sorry you take such personal offense to it. The core of my advice to you is that you may not get Cubase to work the way YOU want it to ALL the time. I certainly can’t but I find that being careful rather than creative has been the best way to go for many years. I HAVE LEARNED THAT RECORDING ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY INTO THE SCORE EDITOR IS FRAUGHT WITH INSTABILITY ISSUES. Read the manual again and tell me where it says you can do what you are attempting. Early on I thought it was possible too, seems reasonable, but soon had to stop and work as normal.
I don’t regulate what you may use it for. The programmers do. Get over it.
And writing via the other editors is SO much easier than trying to mangle the program’s dataflow. If you know how to read music then the key editor is easier still.
And, for my sarcastic side, when did you last set the layout order of your instruments from INSIDE Score?
That’s right. You can’t. That’s another “bug” Cubase needs to fix isn’t it? Huge one that.

AND I never tell anyone to shut up or insult them (but I will trade a better insult back but I’ll never be the first) so please stop trying to censor MY OPINION as in my book that means I am on the right track and you are somehow embarrassed by my observation.
Why else would you want to tell me to shut up?

“I don’t want to be impolite” Yes, it is impolite and you know it and owe me an apology.

system · July 4, 2011, 9:55pm

It’s been entered into the bugbase. We can do nothing more than wait and see.
No point in pretending that you ARE one of the developers/designers and know what they had in mind, based solely on the info contained in a manual plus your own prejudices/opinions.

parnasso · July 4, 2011, 11:20pm

Dear Conman,

nothing of what I wrote was insulting, I’m sorry you understood it that way. I think I wrote in a quite civilized manner.

Look, the thing is: someone reports a bug in the score editor, others chime in and confirm it and then even a moderator confirms it and puts it in the bugbase. Then you come along and tell the thread starter that he shouldn’t use the score editor for that task in the first place.
Don’t you think that it is very little helpful to make a comment like this? After all the problem the thread starter is describing concerns a function of Cubase that is described in the manual and should work as described. Why should you be opposed to this?
And for me the annoying thing (and the reason why I wrote my post above) is that you do this quite often and tell people they shouldn’t use the score editor for composing and editing. When someone reports an issue with an existing function of Cubase he certainly doesn’t want to hear that he should not use that function at all, that’s not helpful. This forum serves also as a place for reporting issues to the Steinberg staff so they can hopefully fix those issues in an update.

As for all the other things you wrote in your post, like “I can’t stop you doing what you do and continually running into problems so you can carry on if you like” or “RECORDING ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY INTO THE SCORE EDITOR”, where have you taken these assumptions from? Neither do I “continually run into problems” nor do I record “almost exclusively into the score editor”. I’ve reported a few issues with the score editor in the past but those specific issues have been fixed in C6 and I’m quite happy with the score editor as it is right now. And I never stated that I would like to change the layout order of my instruments from inside the score…you must have invented all these things.

Conman · July 5, 2011, 12:16pm

Then you come along and tell the thread starter that he shouldn’t use the score editor for that task in the first place.

Dear lad. You so don’t get it.
Unlike you I have not told anyone what to do. I have given them advice from my experience. Others, like you give theirs and I do not object or raise any fuss. Unlike you, I do not deliberately pick arguments for the sake of it when their is no conflict of interest. I do not answer the poster but I answer the post.

There may well be a bug related to the Score stability to fix and I do not dispute that and never did but due to the MANUAL’s description of the Score editor I felt I had to call attention to the Score’s functionality.
The rest of the program is AUDIO defined in purpose and the Score is graphical and the two operations are separate which is why, in the manual you are advised to work on A COPY of your music file when doing scoring as a played in piece will not often LOOK good and a perfect LOOKING score will tend to SOUND mechanical.

Now, if one is (step)entering midi directly into the Score and you are very good at making the score look good the chances are that it will sound mechanical. My assumption from here is that if you are entering data this way you are not after a natural sound but are intending to print a full legible scoreline for others to play from.
Further you are inputting midi, obviously, and this leads me to a question:
Does changing the Priority setting from within the Devices Setup make any difference to anyone who is experiencing the problems?

And, forgive me for not being telepathic but as no-one has said why they work this way I had to consider my ADVICE as my best contribution to the subject. My hope is, for the pain of being told to shut up by someone who thinks he is the new owner of the forum, that I’ve helped at least one person.

And I never stated that I would like to change the layout order of my instruments from inside the score…you must have invented all these things.

And where did I state that YOU wanted to do this. I didn’t invent this. This is the way it’s designed and again you don’t seem to get it. If, say, you work in the old way of using Cubase with the drums and bassline at the top and guitar and piano etc lower down the track list on the PROJECT page and highlight them all and then open the Score editor you will see that arrangement of instruments reflected in the staves, now, if you want to change this order (ie: put the bass and drums at the bottom) you currently have to go back to the Project page and rearrange you tracks into the order that you want to see displayed in the Score page. There is no other way to do this (unless they sneaked it in under my radar recently) and I mentioned it to point out that there are limitations as to what you can do if working mostly from within the Score page to illustrate that it has, but maybe should have if it can be done, not quite the status of the other editors.
Now, if there are new users here that info could save a couple of days, which it took me to find out when I first got Cubase. It’s been there for years and is a massive bug but nobody’s ever mentioned it.
I just call it the way it works.

ceanganb · July 5, 2011, 5:56pm

Conman:

Then you come along and tell the thread starter that he shouldn’t use the score editor for that task in the first place.

Dear lad. You so don’t get it.
Unlike you I have not told anyone what to do. I have given them advice from my experience. Others, like you give theirs and I do not object or raise any fuss. Unlike you, I do not deliberately pick arguments for the sake of it when their is no conflict of interest. I do not answer the poster but I answer the post.

There may well be a bug related to the Score stability to fix and I do not dispute that and never did but due to the MANUAL’s description of the Score editor I felt I had to call attention to the Score’s functionality.
The rest of the program is AUDIO defined in purpose and the Score is graphical and the two operations are separate which is why, in the manual you are advised to work on A COPY of your music file when doing scoring as a played in piece will not often LOOK good and a perfect LOOKING score will tend to SOUND mechanical.

Now, if one is (step)entering midi directly into the Score and you are very good at making the score look good the chances are that it will sound mechanical. My assumption from here is that if you are entering data this way you are not after a natural sound but are intending to print a full legible scoreline for others to play from.
Further you are inputting midi, obviously, and this leads me to a question:
Does changing the Priority setting from within the Devices Setup make any difference to anyone who is experiencing the problems?

And, forgive me for not being telepathic but as no-one has said why they work this way I had to consider my ADVICE as my best contribution to the subject. My hope is, for the pain of being told to shut up by someone who thinks he is the new owner of the forum, that I’ve helped at least one person.

And I never stated that I would like to change the layout order of my instruments from inside the score…you must have invented all these things.

And where did I state that YOU wanted to do this. I didn’t invent this. This is the way it’s designed and again you don’t seem to get it. If, say, you work in the old way of using Cubase with the drums and bassline at the top and guitar and piano etc lower down the track list on the PROJECT page and highlight them all and then open the Score editor you will see that arrangement of instruments reflected in the staves, now, if you want to change this order (ie: put the bass and drums at the bottom) you currently have to go back to the Project page and rearrange you tracks into the order that you want to see displayed in the Score page. There is no other way to do this (unless they sneaked it in under my radar recently) and I mentioned it to point out that there are limitations as to what you can do if working mostly from within the Score page to illustrate that it has, but maybe should have if it can be done, not quite the status of the other editors.
Now, if there are new users here that info could save a couple of days, which it took me to find out when I first got Cubase. It’s been there for years and is a massive bug but nobody’s ever mentioned it.
I just call it the way it works.

Buddy, let’s simplify things: In your experience, entering notes in Score Editor is a bad thing, Score is for printing, etc, etc, etc.

Well, me and others want to use it like this. And guess why? Because it is possible! Because Cubase offers this way of doing things and there’s no reason why not to use it and not to point related bugs. I really don’t understand your resistance. I mean, your point is taken, you advise us not to use SE to compose. I accept your advice, but I won’t follow it. I want to work directly in Score Editor, I like it, and I want it to work at least the way it is described in the manual, then I’m happy. And, yes, I and other legitimate users here want this to be improved, and will keep suggesting them, no matter what you think.

Your interference in every thread related to Score is counterproductive. We thank you for the advice, but we want to set our own workflow, ok? You’re going mad for no good reason.

Don’t get me wrong, just let everyone work his own way.

Regards

JHP · July 11, 2011, 8:57am

Reported 28701:
Not reproducible in pre- announced Cubase 6.03.

Thanks,
Gr,
JHP

lokotus · July 15, 2011, 7:48pm

Hmm. This problem does not really have to do with the first point (changed preferences). I have mine normally set up to open Key Editor if double clicking. The problem still exists (I am on latest 5.5. Update and acutally still wait for Steinberg to solve this problem in C6). Because of this bug - after playing the session when you hit “stop” - a multitude of record buttons are still enabled - making it impossible to get on with the musical work…

Could some admin please recheck this problem in C6.03 if it also occures with the “normal” preferences or could some user whatch into this in order to help me decide whether this is solved in 6.03 ??

Thanks a lot,
Cheers, lokotus

Conman · July 15, 2011, 8:04pm

ceanganb:

Conman:

Then you come along and tell the thread starter that he shouldn’t use the score editor for that task in the first place.

Dear lad. You so don’t get it.
Unlike you I have not told anyone what to do. I have given them advice from my experience. Others, like you give theirs and I do not object or raise any fuss. Unlike you, I do not deliberately pick arguments for the sake of it when their is no conflict of interest. I do not answer the poster but I answer the post.

There may well be a bug related to the Score stability to fix and I do not dispute that and never did but due to the MANUAL’s description of the Score editor I felt I had to call attention to the Score’s functionality.
The rest of the program is AUDIO defined in purpose and the Score is graphical and the two operations are separate which is why, in the manual you are advised to work on A COPY of your music file when doing scoring as a played in piece will not often LOOK good and a perfect LOOKING score will tend to SOUND mechanical.

Now, if one is (step)entering midi directly into the Score and you are very good at making the score look good the chances are that it will sound mechanical. My assumption from here is that if you are entering data this way you are not after a natural sound but are intending to print a full legible scoreline for others to play from.
Further you are inputting midi, obviously, and this leads me to a question:
Does changing the Priority setting from within the Devices Setup make any difference to anyone who is experiencing the problems?

And, forgive me for not being telepathic but as no-one has said why they work this way I had to consider my ADVICE as my best contribution to the subject. My hope is, for the pain of being told to shut up by someone who thinks he is the new owner of the forum, that I’ve helped at least one person.

And I never stated that I would like to change the layout order of my instruments from inside the score…you must have invented all these things.

And where did I state that YOU wanted to do this. I didn’t invent this. This is the way it’s designed and again you don’t seem to get it. If, say, you work in the old way of using Cubase with the drums and bassline at the top and guitar and piano etc lower down the track list on the PROJECT page and highlight them all and then open the Score editor you will see that arrangement of instruments reflected in the staves, now, if you want to change this order (ie: put the bass and drums at the bottom) you currently have to go back to the Project page and rearrange you tracks into the order that you want to see displayed in the Score page. There is no other way to do this (unless they sneaked it in under my radar recently) and I mentioned it to point out that there are limitations as to what you can do if working mostly from within the Score page to illustrate that it has, but maybe should have if it can be done, not quite the status of the other editors.
Now, if there are new users here that info could save a couple of days, which it took me to find out when I first got Cubase. It’s been there for years and is a massive bug but nobody’s ever mentioned it.
I just call it the way it works.

Buddy, let’s simplify things: In your experience, entering notes in Score Editor is a bad thing, Score is for printing, etc, etc, etc.

Well, me and others want to use it like this. And guess why? Because it is possible! Because Cubase offers this way of doing things and there’s no reason why not to use it and not to point related bugs. I really don’t understand your resistance. I mean, your point is taken, you advise us not to use SE to compose. I accept your advice, but I won’t follow it. I want to work directly in Score Editor, I like it, and I want it to work at least the way it is described in the manual, then I’m happy. And, yes, I and other legitimate users here want this to be improved, and will keep suggesting them, no matter what you think.

Your interference in every thread related to Score is counterproductive. We thank you for the advice, but we want to set our own workflow, ok? You’re going mad for no good reason.

Don’t get me wrong, just let everyone work his own way.

Regards

But I just say what my experience tells me and I don’t tell anyone what to do which is entirely valid. However what you are trying to do is “win” an argument which neither of us will ever do.
So kindly stop telling others what to do and just bear with other contributions without trying to be a little dictator.

It’s perfectly alright to say what you are saying and to try and get it to work the way you want but if it doesn’t and the programmers can’t do that (but I do realise they are noticing and have improved this in 6.0.3) for a while it’s going to be tough for you in Cubase.
And for the most part I’m advising what the manual says. Not what I say.
If you can’t handle it. Not my problem.