I can see now why in professional circles they often have a different engineer/producer involved in the mixing process.
In some ways self-producing and doing you’re own mixing is a somewhat flawed approach. One thing I’ve learnt having just had a mix done myself by Dave is the benefits of having and independent set of ears with a differing skill-set to do the mix.
I am agreeing with this a lot too. First of all there is the emotional attachment to the song and all the parts that we painstakingly record and then perhaps agonise over. It is very hard to listen objectively to our own work and then there is also the effect of any deficiencies of our own recording space, monitoring and ears. It’s much easier to make decisions on some body else’s music.
I’ve taken a listen to all the mixes this morning, except the ones that are no longer available. So now for some discussion I hope. Some of the things have taken a bit of getting used to after being so used to my own version I’d like to get some discussion going on various elements of the mixes. Not critique, just a discussion of whys, if’s ans what’s etc.
arimus, I’d live it if you could post a few details. I like the overall vibe, especially the vocals and the delays on the guitars in the quiet section. I also like the overall balance.
The Sherz version. This mix is much brighter than my own but still works well. Very open. Personally I felt that some of the delays were occasionally in the way but that might again be me not used to them. Should the delays at the end of the loud section on the lead guitar either be repeated more or be faded quicker? Discuss. Also the vocal delay at 0:35.
Srophoid. I like the panned vocals, I think that works really well. Nice balance.
Doug’s mix. I like the mono. Good idea. Drums to big and loud in the quite sections? They sound great in the loud section. In fact the whole thing works well in mono and you still have good separation.
Celtsound’s. Lot’s of ambience. I like the roomy drum sound and the vocal ambience.
Sav’s version. Another bright mix compared to my own. As you say, not as adventurous but still sounds good.
firestamper mix. I immediately liked the opening guitar sound. Again I’m a sucker for a roomy sound. Tons of atmosphere. Love it, but what do others think? Would it be too much after a while? Again discuss.
Phil. I’d really like an insight into this mix. Your thoughts and intentions.
Ruaridh version. Again, first impression is I like the intro guitars. Was not expecting what came after. That is cool. Maybe the vocal could be a bit louder in the quiet sections but that is great IMVHO. Anyone else checked this out? I see John has.
John, your mix has gone but some interesting and valid comments. You’re a mechanical guy eh? I tend to think in terms of details, problem solving etc. Hence, I am not great at giving praise. I always look for ways of improving and fine tuning things, yet I listen to music for relaxation I’ve really become one who likes a great vibe over technique. When I listen here I tend to be analytical. JC (Suntower) was always preaching to learn by listening and criticising.
At the moment I don’t have a favourite, well maybe Ruaridh’s, I like something in all of them. I hope we can openly discuss some of these mixes. It would surely benefit us all. You guys might not like some of the things I like and perhaps my summing up is wrong. But then perhaps there is no right and wrong, just art.
I replaced all the drums, except the hats in the middle eight.
There’s also a Hendrix/Cream-ish guitar line under the lead in the
middle eight and I’ve added a pair of pads over the outro.
Hiya Dave. Just listened to the mix I did Dunno what happened but the bulk of the mix moved to the left channel for some reason. Little wonder there were distortion problems and an overall unbalanced feel to the piece.
I’ll have to revisit it sometime…
For discussion purposes; I high-passed a lot of the parts so the bass freqs had their own space. I used automation on the parts I wanted to hear at any given point. Plenty of group channels of course, panned them as necessary. I put a BIG verb on the 2nd vocal too which works fine in the context of this mix. That’s about it really.
I’d be interested in hearing what others think too. Specifically: how much of the VariAudio artifacts can you hear? 'Cos hey: if you could hear the harmony soloed! OH!
Dave,
Sorry to say I have taken my mix down due to the fact that I have invested 14 hours work into this project including a comprehensive tech report resulting in no response for two weeks apart from Doug helping me get the upload correct.
I believe I have gained knowledge through the experience, but am bowing out for some more rewarding opportunities.
Thanks for the pm and am downloading now. It would be great if you could post specifics here rather than privately as the whole point of the thread was sharing info and learning.
I did automate both level and EQ of the drums between the quiet and loud sections.
I think my personal favorite is the Sherz mix. It’s nice an big and wide and loud.
And JSW, I do recall commenting that there was some serious compressor pumping across your mix… not sure what that had to with the uploading process. For the record.
BTW… pads on THIS tune? Well, I guess there was an AC/DC song on a recent album that has a string quartet on it.
I tried to tighten it up some by side-chaining the kick attack to some heavy compression on the bass. I’m not very adept at this technique (although 30 years ago we were doing it all the time), and I frankly couldn’t tell if it was effective or not
But this goes to the heart of my original comment on our role/purpose here.
I think what happened was it turned into “post your new versions of my song”
as opposed to your mixes of the existing files.
So, my second mix simply reflects the expanded role. And personally, I think the
pads are successful in that section of the outro.
Having said that, I do think that next time we need to establish some rules, otherwise
we don’t end up with mixes so much as reinterpretations and I think they are
entirely different critters.
I think it would then make mix comparisons much easier.
I know Dave is happy with new treatments/versions, but I think it defeats the mix
objective.
I see from your notes you mostly use fairly high compression ratios. Just wondering how much gain reduction you are applying?
I also like Ian’s mix. I was listening again this morning and felt that I could hear the limiter working though. When the vocal drops out felt the rest of the mix breathe.
Actually, I thought their addition worked well in Jet’s mix. In my case, rather than introduce a new sound to the palate (maybe cos I was just too lazy! ) I instead opted to use a part from one of Dave’s guitars and massaged that into place on the outro instead. Different, but generally I think it plays a similar sort of role to Jet’s pads.
Also, a couple of things I did included playing around with panning a bit on the vocals - keywords like ‘goodbye’ for example. More of a SFX thing really I guess, but I like doing that kind of stuff to help inject a bit of dimension and help create space and movement. This is also apparent with my use of delays. However, I imagine it’s probably not normally the thing done on more conventional rock mixes. Also, I forgot to mention earlier that checked over the tuning on all the two vocals (sorry Dave! ) and also tightened up the alignment in a number of spots.
I also often look for any little motifs or riffs that could be highlighted. at 2:07 -2:09 there’s that little run on the guitars for example which I brought forward in the mix - sometimes I think it works to make a little ‘feature’ out of little riffs etc that like this might ordinarily go unnoticed.
Well, if you mixed in mono then my mix obviously would sound big and wide!
Actually, one of my goals was to specifically have it really open right up at 0:48 - when the band kicks in.
So, obviously wide panned guitars for starters, and then the use of delays etc etc to help create a sense of size and dimension - both part of my approach. Seems to have worked.
The only major flaw I hear in my mix is … the snare!
Actually, one of my goals was to specifically have it really open right up at 0:48 - when the band kicks in.
So, obviously wide panned guitars for starters, and then the use of delays etc etc to help create a sense of size and dimension - both part of my approach. Seems to have worked.