RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

“native” as in native to Cubase, just start typing “mod” in the search window when you click on an empty insert slot and you’ll find it.

“So am I correct please in that there is definitely no CARBON COPY DELAY within ARTIST 8 please?”

There are four different delays with Cubase - again in the empty insert slot type “delay” to list them.

Hi PepperPig,

Ok, thanks man. I am still very much a NOVICE in CUBASE so I appreciate the help.

Paul

Thanks PP,

I will take a look . . .

Best,

Paul

Hi,

Well one thing I found out for sure tonight is: using the HI OUTPUT on the MULTI circa DOUBLES the amount (level) of artifacts when the MXR CC is activated. I changed it round last night to try this different OUTPUT, and at the same time, hooked up the MXR. Bad idea because I should have eliminated each individually. But I just realized tonight that the OUTPUT was HI so I changed it back to LO, and the results were better.

I may try and make a dedicated recording tomorrow. The artifacts are ONLY in the UPPER (2’) register. And they sound almost pitch-like (ie high harmonics).

Best,

Paul

Hello,

Here is a piece I made tonight after putting some time in thinking more about the MXR CARBON COPY DELAYsettings.

I set it to (what I would term) a SINGLE MEDUIM DELAY and tried (with little success) to play/keep in TIME with the damn thing! (I did not realize how tricky it was) :confused: But this was partly because I was trying to concentrate on shaping the FILTER and EG RELEASE (that’s my excuse anyway!).

Because, as mentioned above, I came from the LO OUTPUT on the MULTI, the artifacts are somewhat reduced.

I EXPORTED this (from CUBASE) as MP3 @ 44.1 and 48kHz (the latter being the highest option in mpeg). Though the FILE SIZE was IDENTICAL for both (2.21MB)?! And similarly I EXPORTED the WAV’s @ 44.1 and 96kHz (39MB and 84MB respectively). But they are too big to upload to most places (though I could upload to MyDrive [Google] if anyone was interested in comparing)?

Anyway, here it is on You Tube and PicoSong:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi9Q8aXkpIo

http://picosong.com/g6x6

Many thanks,

Paul

Hello PepperPig,

Thanks for your pointers.

I had a look as you kindly suggested but I was not able to locate it. Though more than likely I may have done something incorrectly!

Please see screenshot result below:


Many thanks,

Paul

It looks like ModMachine isn’t included with Cubase Artist - I wonder what freebe alternatives are available?

PepperPig,

Thanks for confirming that. I thought I was going mad!

Paul

"Funky Slap Back" - dedicated to Mark Warren, London, UK (Seaman - 2015).

Rockin’ out on the MULTIMOOG with MXR DELAY set to produce a SLAP BACK FX.

The SPEED is so fast that it sounds almost like double-tracking/chorus!

Performed in 1 x pass with exception to the INTRO and ENDING (which use a slightly different PATCH), and the PORTAMENTO FX (midway point OVERDUB) which uses a very LONG DELAY (time).

'Twas a bugger to try and play! :open_mouth:

It is uploaded to both You Tube and PicoSong:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmZ99fWF81s&feature=youtu.be)

http://picosong.com/gQ6g

Cheers,

Paul

Hello,

Here is an example of the artifacts on the MultiMoog with the MXR CC DELAY pedal.

I play a few notes in three different registers without the MXR, and then the same pattern again (more or less) with the MXR turned ON. The HIGHER I play, the MORE the artifacts become present.

I watched a couple of You Tube videos (of guitarists) and they both raved about how pure and clean the MXR delay FEEDBACK’s were (ie the reproduction tone was unaffected).

I uploaded the demo to PicoSound:

http://picosong.com/gQhs

Much appreciated,

Paul

Just looked up the MXR carbon copy it’s just a simple up to 600ms delay - any Cubase Artist ones will be far better. monodelay, pingpong delay, StereoDelay - just type “delay” in the same searchbox you used before. If you want to make it sound a bit more analog just insert Magneto ahead of the delay to “soften” the sound a but. Quadrafuzz V2 also has its own built in delay so you can emulate old tapedelays. All of these are available in Cubase Artist.

If you want a pure artifact free delay the standard Cubase ones will give you exactly that. VST Amp rack also has delay pedals available.

PepperPig,

Yes that’s right, up to 600ms on the MXR.

Just seems to be an issue in the HIGH END on the MOOG. It is fine on my RHODES piano.

I will have a nose for the others (above) you kindly recommend.

So in other words, you think the CUBASE FX will produce much better results (than the MXR).

Much appreciated,

Paul

So it sounds like you are struggling with the difference between line and instrument level on your outboard gear. Here is a quicky explanation.
http://www.ovnilab.com/articles/linelevel.shtml

Keep in mind that your Carbon Copy is designed to work with low/instrument output devices (guitar) and that your Moog is an EXTREMELY hi output/line level device. What you typically need to do is really dial the moog output way down then feed the output of the carbon copy into a pre-amp/amp to get it back up to line level. Your Rhodes works because it has an instrument out.

When you describe the “high end” problem, it’s hard to tell if you are getting that due to clipping, or because of the normal frequency range of the carbon copy (again it’s made for a guitar). A Rhodes, even though it has a higher register than a guitar, is already greatly reduced high frequency content. Your Moog is sending tremendously more high frequency information at a much higher level.

Hi PepperPig,

Well I found the BOX but there is no MANUAL. I keep, and look after, all of my musical properties but it would seem strange that it came with no documentation at all?! Though maybe it did (I bought it a couple of years ago).

I watched some more demonstration You Tube videos on it this morning and it appears (unbeknown to me!) that if you open up the device, there are (what people call) ‘trimming pots’ with which you can modify how the TOP END FREQ’s react (or words to that effect). Though hardly anyone discusses this and it is only mentioned in passing. Nobody has demonstrated this and in all instances owners have RETAINED all settings as per FACTORY default. But this would mean changing the inner-settings each time I use it on my MOOG and on my RHODES.

Thanks a lot,

Paul

Thank you JMC,

I really appreciate you joining in the thread.

I will have a good read later.

But quickly just off the top of my head:

Ok, so the MOOG is still HIGH LEVEL even when I come out of the LO OUTPUT (-10dB). Incidentally, the VOLUME SLIDER on the MOOG was (in all recordings) set to FULL (ie 9/10).

Well if you mean the CUBASE FADERS running into the RED, then no. So no DIGITAL CLIPPING.

Sure, the MOOG produces far more COMPLEX an output than RHODES or GUITAR. However, if I ran the RHODES thru a (say) RING MODULATOR, and then into the MXR DELAY, then would I have the same kind of issue again (because of the complex FREQ’s) although of course this would not be as a result of LINE LEVEL.

Many thanks,

Paul

JMC,

Do you think a PREAMP would solve the issue and are they expensive please?

Ta,

Paul

hah! I wish I could give you a yes/no answer to either question.

Preamps cost from $40 to $40,000 …
The answer to “will it solve the problem”, maybe sometimes. :laughing:

Basically, different pedals and different output/input combinations work well or don’t work well. You never know until you try.
Your -10 pad setting should have let the Moog at least attempt to work well with the Carbon Copy. Didn’t know that the Mutli had that output to be honest.

I think you misunderstand what I was saying about the frequency thing. the CC was designed to work within the frequency domain of a guitar. A Rhodes has very similar frequency content to a guitar. A Moog does not … not even close. Analog gear is especially subject to this type of design. You really make it to work with a specific input level and frequency range. Digital is much more forgiving on that front. One of the reasons EchoPlexs were/are so sought after for keyboards is because the builtin pre-amp makes it a chameleon for dealing with both input and output levels (also the pre sounds awesome all by itself if you like that smooth rolloff sound some pres have).

However, the Moog should work well with a BBG delay, so I’m assuming you have level problems more the frequency problems. But, it’s something to consider. Also, using mismatched gear sometimes creates odd effects that you can actually use. It’s a total crap shoot.

I don’t know the delays that are included with your version of Cubase, but what you are trying to achieve with the CC is band reduction and degradation on each repeat. Plus it has modulation, which allows you to create subtle chorusing, or crazy detuned echos. I think you should have one with modulation, but I don’t know if you have one with an analog mode that replicates BBG.

Hi JMC,

Yep, it has a HI (+12dB) and LO (-10dB). The LO produces only about half the artifacts of the HI. Why do you call it a “pad” please?

Just to check, are you referring to the MULTI or the MXR CC here please?

On my very first UPLOAD (“East Quay Float”), I did not use the MXR at all (just a tiny amount of CUBASE REVERB). Fellow member Lukas criticised it (I wanted feedback so this was not unwelcomed!), but to me it sounded not too bad, and way CLEANER than the following UPLOADS (with MXR).

PepperPig kindly recommends both MAGNENTO and QUADRAFUZZ (which I have yet to try out).

Yes, the MXR CC has a a MOD switch which adds a little quasi-CHORUSING to REGENERATED signal (but not the ORIGINAL tone).

Could you please explain this sentence a little more:

Best,

Paul

MXR Carbon Copy Delay Manual:

http://www.jimdunlop.com/files/manuals/M169_man_WEB.pdf