Recommendations for Control Surface

Cubase
,
21

Yup they work great for jog control.

If you swap from Beats to SMPTE on the MCU then you can jog to each frame super easy - plus each frame is a physical ‘click’ on the jog wheel, the MCU’s have that nice soft click as you jog. Scrub mode adds a little more inertia so can sometimes jump 2 frames - but it’s nice to match up the sound to the video using scrub so it depends what you prefer.

Using beats mode then each jog is a beat (Snaps to). And using scrub mode it’s about half a beat per wheel ‘click’ - with the same added inertia/free flowing effect (i.e. doesn’t snap to a beat).

Extender Fader banks work well too and all controls span across - in fact, that’s the only way you can use extenders, and you have to ensure you assign them in the correct order in Cubase setup or they can be reversed.

The main downside of the MCU is that you have to familirise yourself with some of the controls and there isn’t an official ‘up to date’ template that i’m aware of that you can stick on the front - but i created labels for mine, and have my F1-F8 keys all labelled for custom actions, so really pleased with how it’s setup. It takes a few days to get use to though - but it is well worth learning ALL the functions.

Also, if plugin control is of interest you can re-organise the plugin parameters within Cubase using the Remote Control Editor - this is a really big pro for Cubase and MCU in my eyes. Many other DAWs you have to map via text files or third party apps.

22

What you say is absolutely true, especially the Cubase remote control editor, and upon first look, would most likely convince others that a DAW controller is beneficial for VST plug-ins parameter adjustment.

But here is what is never mentioned and rarely thought of…the reality: (my background is the QconPro, however I think it would work the same on the Mackie since both are MC protocl)

To bring any VST into focus, you must press a few buttons and then scroll through every VST that is in your library including the Steinberg factory VSTs. Do you want to scroll through at least several dozen if not hundreds of VSTs every time in order to edit a single VST? Next, on the DAW controller once the VST is focused, press a button to shift through the button/knob banks (always 8 per bank) For myself, unless rare situations where I know I’m going to be editing a VST for a while, it’s just more immediate to use the mouse to achieve my editing goals.

These are just Cubase users facing reality.

If you want a DAW controller for mainly Jog Wheel uses, yes, I think it should work for that precision, but I would test it first to be sure. I’m not a Jog user either.

Good luck!

23

The CC121 from Steinberg is integrated much more then any control. You can use the AI knob as parameter setter or as JOG wheel.
And you have the same transport buttons 8x with the option to turn on / off loop cycle.
What it makes fast is that it acts per channel, solo, mute etc. What i use most is the buttons to go directly to the VST Instrument, and the track mixer / effects. The AI knop functions in most C10 (and Wavelab) functions, even in most Steinberg plugins. Somo other plugins do work if they implemented the feature. Other plugins not. What i did not like of the Mackie of 8 / 16 tracks faders, it is a big thingy that cannot stand next to you. If you have a mouse / keyboard and on top a Note Keyboard Midi, there is little room for a big thing like the Mackie MCU Pro. Even additions Extension make it even bigger. The MCU is now disconnected and i do ALL with the CC121, mouse , keyboard. A matter of approach. The 8 / 16 moterised faders are not missed out so much by me. The only obstacle can be live mixing, what works better with the 8 / 16 MCU setups. The CC121 has little flaws and works as a good in between options. I can recommend it to anyone who has a mouse on one side and the CC121 next the other side. The MCU took too much room and i did therefore (because of distance) not so much with it. The CC121 is now much more in use and surely is a good options when you dont like opening windows with your mouse, and many things can be done way faster. A matter of feel and approach. Still the Mackie MCU Pro is a good implemented thingy and works very well with C10.

24

I use my Mackie more for parameter tweaking VST controls/Sends/Channel Strips/Jog/Variaudio Correction than i do the faders for volume - probably 80% of it’s use is for such tasks, so i’m not sure what you find so tricky? I prefer to use my ears rather than eyes and the mackie is perfect for that, for me it’s not about being a mouse replacement as such.

For plugins i just press the plugin button and then use the first V Pot/Rotary to scroll through the 16 Insert slots and tweak whatever plugin is on each, i don’t even look at the plugin windows as i know them so well. Plus, if i bank to another track then it stays on that insert/channel strip component which is great moving along likewise channels and my templates are all set up as so. I think having good templates is key to a great workflow with a controller.

25

I didn’t say tricky did I? . I said the reality of numerous button presses, and or knob turing, to get a desired result instead of using a mouse. I’m sure you could count the number of steps on any MCU vs. clicks with a mouse.

I too use my ears, but also use my eyes. You can move a control on screen using a mouse for a VST or you can move a physical control on the MCU. Both achieve identical sonic results so I’m not sure, with the exception of graphic displays such as EQ’s, how staring at a MCU vs. staring at a screen is an advantage?

Yes, that is just 1 of many steps…scrolling through the inserts. Once you decide on which insert to open a VST, now you get to scroll through hundreds of VST’s to load whatever you wish in a blank insert, assuming you don’t already have a VST in the slot. If you say “I use templates and the plugs are already loaded” then you must be using a combination of a lot of templates and eventually if an idea progresses, you end up enabling/disabling, hiding etc.

You forgot you need to shift parameter banks because you are limited to 8 unless that parameter happens to be in the first bank. And under MC protocol, you don’t mind the character limitation that often forces you to heavily abbreviate when initially setting up a parameter in the Remote Control Editor?

If you don’t need to look at the plug in windows because you are familiar I would think that to be an exception. Sure I can do this with UAD compressors & limiters and tools with few parameters that I use frequently. But even something as simple as the Cubase mono delay, I find it more quick to look at the plug-in on screen as opposed to looking at 8 abbreviated parameters on the MCU plus potentially shifting to the 2nd bank if one of the 8 mono delay parameters is not in the first bank.

It does stay on that insert, but I don’t understand this advantage with templates?
For me, templates are just beginning stepping off points to start an idea that can morph into a song. Once the idea is developed, the template is pretty much lost due to customization of how the song is progressing. I’m going to delete or at best disable tools I don’t think will be used in my developing song. Years ago, i used to keep certain “bread n butter” tools in templates, but over time, I felt it was better for my workflow to keep things more clean from the start when developing an idea. Any of these tools can be loaded very quickly using presets. And even better work-flow set-ups using Track Import.

Here is the newest complaint thread at GS. A new one gets started about every month with the same complaints. :smiley:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1281825-game-changing-control-surface-do-you-want-one.html

26

I can only give my opinion based on personal experience and I don’t have the negative experience that you do, or others choose to complain about… I could show you hundreds of complaints of every single instrument, hardware and software that I own… it means squat to me.

Heck, I swapped from MacOS to Win10 this year and apparently I’m being spied on, infected with viruses and continually crashing and living in fear of ‘forced’ updates based on online comments. (Lol). Oh and I’m also running FireWire audio with 2 ADATs neither of which will work, (lol again). I monitor through Behringer Truth speakers which sound terrible and continually fails, (lol once more). My Fender Jaguar is so terrible that the strings fall of the bridge, it has no sustain and the pickups are awful (oh lol), Cubase is terrible due to the amount of bugs and lack of support from Steinberg which is all Yamahas fault (lol)… And now I find out that my Mackie is so bad there’s new complaints made every month (lol).

Look, I’m a long term Logic user, and my MCU is the original Emagic Logic Control (MIDI only) with extender so I’m so used to navigating it over the years to the point that it’s second nature to me.

I don’t sit in front of a screen and record, my Mackie is on a trolley so if I’m sitting by piano, or in the corner where my guitar amps are, then i move it right by my side so I can record/mix/edit just as you would old style multitrack recorders… And Its great. I don’t want to be slave to the screen and mouse, that’s not what music is about for me… it’s an escape from all that, I code all day long looking at 3 screens.

In regards to template setup, I have my most used sends in place ready to go, and have preferred Audio inserts for each type of track disabled ready for me to use/enable as I wish, so I know what’s on IFX1,2,3,4 etc… Any additional effects willgo through an fx bus, And mixer groups are setup so I can immediately bank to only show drums, bass, guitar, vox, group, fx tracks.

As for fader banks and navigating across, using the visibility buttons I can get all my group tracks on the faders, or all my individual drum channels, all guitars etc. It’s so simple - why bank through 8/16 faders when you can just flick it into view so quickly?. If I want to run through the first compressor for each I just go to IFX1 and step between the tracks, in regards to 8 char limit I can mute/solo multiple tracks at once to audition tracks to hear what they are if I’m not sure.

Its simply about using your ears, not concerned with what each track is labelled as I know within each sub group where things normally sit, and yes if i am operating an onscreen UI such as EQs i will subconsciously use my eyes to judge whether the sound is correct, It’s an OCD thing with me perhaps.

The way I see it is that people made great music before mouse driven DAWs were the norm. Having ‘only’ 8 characters on the display and fader banks that don’t follow onscreen selection really isn’t a problem which obstructs me. Neither is spending the time to have a template that I’m familiar with. What is important is that my soul remains focused on the music and not operating software cause it’s “easier”.

27

The jog shuttle is broken since cubase 8.5 so I dont think there any other than Nuage.
MCU on budget, like Behringer or the real one from Mackie. A larger budget people with EUCON
devices seems happy with them. (I have not tried EUCON hardware, but a ipad software that is part
of that ecosystem. I could never get it to be stable on my mac so Im using MCU) So try that out, not
as replacement for hardware controller, but you get a taste of what it can do before buy.

But sadly there is no good control surface for cubase, you need to pick the one that is as least annoying as possible and fit your budget.

28

One interesting contender is Loupedeck CT, it seems to be a good hardware for transport functions. However there is no cubase/nuendo support.

29

AVID Artist Series:
Transport - Excellent Jog/Shuttle with very tight, and high resolution = Used on ebay.
Mix - Motorized Fader support = Amazon
Control - 4 more motorized faders plus programmable touch screen with presets = ebay.

All units are tightly integrated with Cubase, and Nuendo… there is alot of overlap as far as each device’s functionality is concerned, but YouTube is your friend for seeing how these devices can be integrated into your workflow. These devices are no longer current, but still very much relevant if you are willing to do the research to understand some of the quirks that any of these types of devices have… as I said earlier " YouTube is your friend."

30

I’ve been usung the avid artis series for a few years now and they work extremely well and have a good look and feel to them and the majority of users on these forums are more than happy with avid controllers.

The only issue I have is the rather long wait for updates. Avid update their eucon adapter quite frequently, Steinberg on the other hand don’t which can be really frustrating, it’s been reported in the avid support website that there have been some recent discussion with Steinberg and Eddie over at avid has mentioned the most common gripes cubendo users have.

The artis mix is still good and has takes set five years support in front of it, the avid transport is a superb piece of kit and a must have really. The artist control is a good piece of kit, once you’ve learned to program the touch screen to your way of working though that is being slowly replaced by the dock which is quite expensive.

You can pick up all of these units for a reasonable price on eBay or other auction sites, I would reccomend them. You’d probably have to lobby Steinberg to bring new features up to date but you won’t be on your own.

There’s always the SSL Nucleus, there’s always a few of them on eBay, what puts me off the Nuckeus is that it comes preconfugured rather well for Logic but the factory Cubendo preset leaves a bit to be desired and can be a bit of a pain with Cubendo.

31

Anyone using Behringer X32 in the studio?
Besides being an USB i/o with plenty of mic pres, it can also double as “8 fader Mackie MCU”.
It can also have remote mic pres via CAT-cable and also pretty nice personal monitoring system.

32

you can speed up the workflow with cubazen and a touch screen. there is a demo version for cubase and nuendo. A solution with a cheap touch screen. macros and icons to work better.

https://sellfy.com/zendaw

33

I recently purchased a Qcon icon pro g2 and couldn’t be happier. It works fantastic with Cubase and with extender 16 channels. Looks pro. Solidly built. Great price

34

I use Avid Artist Mix, Transport and Control and could not be happier. The integration is incredibly deep and flexible. In your case I would imagine you will love the Transport because of its superior Jog wheel. In my opinion Avid stepped backwards with the Dock in this context. I just checked Reverb and unfortunately they do not have used ones for sale. The old artist series (except for the Mix which is still for sale) was EOL’d a couple of years ago but if you can find these pieces I would say they are well worth the money.

35

the Steinberg CC121 integrates seamlessly with Cubase. You’ll have to look online for a distributor since Steinberg online doesn’t have them in stock.