Recorded sustain pedal CC doesn't play when Independent Voice Playback is on

Recording the sustain pedal CC (and other CCs too, I suppose) does work, however it doesn’t play back if you’re using IRV, and the related CC lanes disappear, i.e. you can’t select them anymore via the drop-down menu.

So you need to disable IRV to be able to hear it, which is a big issue if you want to hear the pedal while you’re editing the various voices.

This bug is very problematic for my workflow, because right now I’m forced to use IRV due to how Dorico handles voices.

This isn’t a bug, because this is how the application is designed to behave. (I have taken the liberty of removing the shouty “BUG” from your thread title.)

When you have a single endpoint for an instrument, then you have a single source of MIDI CC/automation data, which is routed to the endpoint along with the notes. When you have multiple endpoints for an instrument, each voice has its own source of MIDI CC/automation data, which is routed to each individual endpoint along with the notes.

This is how it has to work, since if you are using, for example, patches that are controlled, say, by MIDI CC 1 for dynamics, if you had a single source of automation data for all of your independent voices, their dynamics wouldn’t be able to be independent, thus completely negating most of the benefit of using independent voice playback in the first place.

However, I recognise that it would be helpful to be able to choose to take any existing MIDI CC data that exists for the original non-independent playback state and to be able to copy it to each of the new independent voice automation sources, and perhaps this is something we will be able to make possible in future.

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The point is that if a user is on IRV for a piano, and he records CC64, his recorded data won’t play back. That is, if not a bug, very unintuitive for the user: I’ve spent like half an hour trying to understand why it wasn’t recording (it actually was).

Simply apply the CC 64 recording to the first available voice. Isn’t that an obvious solution, and the behavior one would expect?

For me, the pedal events are recorded and displayed correctly even when the IRV is active. (Programm settings ?)
However, in my opinion, IRV doesn’t really make sense on an instrument like the piano. The pedal noises then sound twice for me, for example.

IRV doesn’t really make sense on an instrument like the piano.

You’re forced to do it because right now the velocity editor in Dorico is not ok, see Velocities editing - Unselected notes are still affected

One bug or weird design choice generally leads to a chain of issues, and to necessities that would otherwise not exist.

For me, the pedal events are recorded and displayed correctly even when the IRV is active.
The pedal noises then sound twice for me, for example.

This means that you probably have multiple racks of the same piano VSTs, in which case you’re doing it very wrong (you are supposed to route the voices to the same piano VST), or you are using a very bizarre VST.

Neither - IRV (as implemented by DORICO) is always a wrong way to go with a piano, in my opinion - I therefore don’t use it for a piano at all.
DORICO currently offers enough options to control the dynamics of a 4-part piano part, for example. E.g. among other methods I use the Histogram tool on a selection of notes (voices).
By the way, my bizarr piano is the Spitfire Zimmer Piano - in my opinion the best virtual piano on the market.

I totally agree, by the way, that the dynamics editing tools ignoring a note selection is an annoying mistake. I think this is so obvious that it will be fixed in a timely manner.
greeting
Bertram

Neither

I mean, if you are actually using IRV. Have you tried? If you try, you shouldn’t be ablet to record. If you are able to, well, I have no idea what I’m doing wrong, then. I’m recording and IRV doesn’t play back. If I switch back to a single instrument, it does play back.

in my opinion the best virtual piano on the market.

I use Pianoteq, all recorded VSTs sound like honky-tonk pianos to me, but that’s of course subjective.

I think this is so obvious that it will be fixed in a timely manner.

Let’s hope so.

As I posted above, pedal recording works as expected for me. (Spitfire Audio - Hans Zimmer Piano). However, I only activated IRV and did not redirect or delete any VST’s. (Each time IRV is deactivated and activated again, DORICO generates new additional instruments for all voices :wink:

As mentioned, there is also a program setting for the C64 pedal recording.

As mentioned, there is also a program setting for the C64 pedal recording.

That’s about generating pedal lines in the notation, which is a different matter.

I refer to your post title.
Please forgive me if I couldn’t help you.

[redacted]

Just tried with a default Dorico template, and the issue is definitely there.

@dspreadbury Since I didn’t get other replies, can you confirm that this will be addressed, or is the behavior staying like that? Thanks.

As indicated in my initial reply, we can see that there may be some benefit to automatically duplicating MIDI CC data that exists for the “main” voice when activating independent voice playback, but I can’t say when we might implement that.

Ok, I’ve read your initial reply again, and I now understand the misunderstanding: you said the voices have their own CCs and notes, etc., but I thought that you could still record the CC64 for one of those voices, and then, since they are all routed to the same VST, I expected it to just work. But, if I understand correctly, since each voice has its own CC64, they actually interfere with each other, or something like that, and so it doesn’t work with a single VST.

So I’ll just accept it as it is, because I shouldn’t even be using IRV anyway, it’s a workaround that I’m using because of the velocity editing issue, so I’ll simply wait for that other issue to be fixed and in the meanwhile, when I want to hear the recorded pedal, I’ll switch back to a single instrument.

Thanks, sorry for the confusion.

I tested it again this morning with the same result: in my case, the CC64 pedal recording works the same and correctly as expected.

With and without IRV - with all VSTs generated by DORICO as well as with redirecting all voices to just one (the first) VST or after deactivating IRV after recording and removing all superfluous VSTs.

When using IRV it might be good if all selected voices are shown in write mode.
greeting
Bertram