What if instead of using the Loop function to record multiple Takes you duplicate & repeat that section of the Timeline multiple times. What you’d hear would sound the same as the loop, but the recording wouldn’t use multiple Lanes - just a bunch of ‘takes’ one after another where Set Definition from Tempo should work.
I often create extra versions of a Project dedicated to Tracking & Comping where things can get as messy as needed. And then Import those results into the main non-messy version of the Project.
Yeah that should work, but it doesn’t make sense why one method works and the other doesn’t. Therefor I would consider this to be an issue that Steinberg needs to fix.
I think the issue is to do with how the lanes are references of the audio file and are not individual audio files themselves. But @MatthewJohn says that the Musical Mode time stretch to tempo still fails even on the audio event on the main track / Lane 1, which should be the audio file itself. It seems like the issue occurs as soon as any lanes are created.
Yes, this works well in Protools. And I would have done this particular project in Protools if I had known I’d encounter these issues. I do like the functionality of the Cubase tempo track; it’s very intuitive and fast – but things get weird with takes (lanes), and crashes or freezes can result too. I think I went 15 years without any major crashes in Cubase until I did some new work flows this summer and probably have had 60 or so crashes in three months. For instance, a few nights ago I had 8 crashes in a row trying to get certain tracks in the pool switched to musical mode. Every time I checked the box of certain audio tracks – freeze! Then I realized those tracks in the pool were no longer in my current project – they were from an earlier version of the project, but they were still showing up in the pool. I hope steinberg streamlines audio in the next release instead of adding a bunch if features.
That’s nice to know that it works as expected in other DAWs such as Protools, this just means that there is no excuse for Cubase to have this functionality also.
Q1) Would you happen to know if the audio events on the lanes in Protools are separate audio files or not ?
Would you be able to perform the following test in Cubase ?:
Step 1:
Make a cycled recording
Step 2:
Expand the lanes on the track and right click “Remove Selected Track” on every single lane except for Lane 1.
Step 3:
Use the resizing handle on the audio event on the main track to expand it out to its full length of the original recording.
Step 4:
Double check that there is no “Lane / Take” references remaining in the Audio Pool. If they are make sure to delete them all from the Audio Pool.
Step 5:
Now try enabling Musical Mode and see if it works as expected ?
Yeah it’s just to try and get a better understanding of whether or not if the Lane references to the audio file are blocking the functionality of the Musical Mode time stretch to tempo.
Doing these steps should reset the track back to it’s default state, the same as a single take recording with no lanes.
Thanks. I am trying to imagine exactly how you guys work and more importantly why. It would probably become very clear to me if I saw the workflow myself, but that ain’t going to happen.
This workflow is really not hard to imagine, and is done all the time: takes are done, and sometimes tempos are adjusted a bit afterwards (maybe 2 or 3 bmp in spots). It’s very common. Cubase just can’t do it (without a workaround) – that’s the shocking thing.
To answer your question about protools: the different takes from loop recording (which form what protools calls playlists) are separate audio files. It’s handled very well in protools: when you loop record and then change tracks to “Tick mode” (like musical mode in cubase), the program functions exactly as expected: ‘everything in it’s right place.’
Cubase can’t even get it right at one tempo, let alone many tempos. Why this hasn’t come up in this forum is a mystery.
I just tested it myself. In the audio pool you need to delete ALL of the “Takes” by dragging them to the Trash. This will leave behind the original audio file with no Takes referencing it. You may then need to drag and drop the audio file from the audio pool back onto the track and then enable Musical Mode. Does this make the Musical Mode work as expected ?
See how the “Takes” aren’t separate audio files like they are in Protools, this is what I believe is causing the issue. I think it’s something to do with the way Cubase handles this causes the Musical Mode time stretch to tempo to stop functioning.
If you do the following:
Step 1:
Create a cycled recording.
Step 2:
Delete everything on the lanes and main track.
Step 3:
Delete all of the “Takes” in the audio pool by dragging them to the trash.
Step 4:
Drag and drop the original audio file from the audio pool back onto the track and then enable Musical Mode, does this make the Musical Mode work as expected ?
As I said, the quickest way to make it work in Cubase is to 1) create tracks from lanes, 2) bounce all those track you just created. Now the “takes” (former lanes) will respond correctly to musical mode.
Of course there are other things you’ll likely need to do in this process for organizational purposes, like put bounced “takes” in folders, enable group editing, delete the original track with lanes and so on.
With big projects, this work-around can generate unweildy projects. For example, if you have three mics on an instrument with 10 lanes, after the work-around you’ve now got 30 tracks. For me it’s not hard, but I’ve been working with DAWs for almost three decades and I do it for a living. But for newer users I can easily see the nightmare-ish implications of just trying to change the tempo in a few bars by 2 or 3 bpm after lanes have been recorded.
Yes, I understand what you’re saying. I suspect the bouncing method works because it changes the “Takes” into actual audio files. I would consider this as a issue that needs to be fixed by Steinberg. I don’t see why Musical Mode shouldn’t work with cycled recordings and for the “Takes” to update accordingly.
