Render In-place Pre-Fader

There needs to be a setting identical to “Channel Settings” (Rendered files include FX, EQ and Channel Strip), but that grabs the signal pre-fader and then copies over the fader level position to the new track.

It doesn’t make sense to not do this.

How is anyone supposed to change level correctly if it’s been baked into the file.

And to have to manually set the channel to unity gain before rendering in-place turns what could have been an otherwise perfectly smooth workflow into not one.

So many missed streamlining opportunities in Cubase, like this, add up.

I’m really baffled how there can be so many Render settings, but the one that’s most logical, is missing. Very frustrating.

Also, it’s tantamount to a sort of “data loss” in that a carefully gain-staged pre-fader level, hard-earned and struggled for, is lost. And of course is also a “destructive process” (in the render) regarding the Fader position, itself.

For example: I mix to k-14 specs, pre-fader. It effectively does away with that good work if the Render is considered a starting point. I can’t get back to k-14 and rethink my mix decision. The issue gets worse, the lower the fader happens to be at the time of Rendering. If really low, even cranking the fader all the way up would not get back to my k-14 level.

I haven’t tested this with pre-fader sends, but it would seem it breaks that, too. I’ll test and update / bump this, at some point.

+1

+1

It should even be the default setting (if it existed).

The fact it’s missing completely is baffling and worrisome.

Because it appears a lot of thought and effort went into this much anticipated feature.

Either, the feature is planned and the other methods were just easier to implement for v1.0, or they’re very out-of-touch.

And since Pre-Fader signal is, programmatically, probably just as easy to grab as post-fader, I fear it’s the latter not the former.

I mean, they had time to implement group busses and master fx rendering? Whaaat? That’s gotta be like a .01% edge-case. It’s not something the Bounce In-place crowd is looking to do on a day-to-day basis. We’ve had batch export of Group Channels, for a long time, for that.

Render in-place is about saving CPU, not baking in basic level that uses zero CPU.

To belabor the point, forgive me if I continue… :laughing: BIP in concept, should be a sort of DIY, more flexible, version of freeze. We don’t see freeze baking level in post-fader because that would be ridiculous and unworkable.

Okay, I’m done. /rant :smiley:

+1

Absolutely right! The basic RIP operation should just render the inserts to the event (in this case inserts stay as they are) or track (nice to have the options to hide/disable/remove source channel as it is now) and keep the channel format!

What would be absolutely excellent: inserts get automatically disabled or removed (by choice) and the original event is ‘parked’ as a track version while the rendered event becomes a new version on top. Instead of adding an ® to the channel name, the track version gets this remark.

(It’s really messing up names now. I like the bigger, easier readable fonts in Cubase 8 but at a reasonable width of the track header gtr bridge clean (maybe shown as gtr brdg…an - still recognizable!) turns into gtr br…R) - just as an example.)


RIP is ‘thinking’ similar to audio export. VCAs are implemented as an extension of the linking system. I will learn how to make the best out of it for sure but there are too much interdependencies going on for my taste.

Exactly. Well said.

This is cool idea, use the Versions feature to good effect.

The best part, they would finally be forced to “fix” Versions to include automation in what it can version.

Yet another partially implemented feature that is all or nothing for me. I don’t have a single MIDI instrument track without automation on it and trying to think of the oddball use-case where the automation of Version 1 happens to line-up and work for whatever is dreamed up in a Version 2 notes-only-events take, seems like a one-in-a-million edge-case.

Well, that’s not true, it would work for a relentless 1/4 note sidechain pumping effect, and nothing else on the entire track! :laughing:

But I digress.

+1

Render-In-Placew should usually be pre-fader (pre-panning). In most of the cases it makes no sense to render such basic things into the audio file. I for example tend to mix at quite low fader positions to give myself lots of headroom for mixing (like -10dB). Using 32bit this doesn’t really matter too much, however when I render-in-place I do not want my audio file crippled to a lower resolution. Same applies to panning. I dont want that in the file!

At least give us another option in the render-in-place setup:

Dry
Channel Settings (pre-Fader)
Channel Settings (post Fader)
Complete Signal Path
Complete Signal Path + Master FX

(although I dont really see the use for the last one)

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  • Codex

+1… and MONO option!

Yes - have to agree with all that’s mentioned; more complete, elegant, professional.

I’m sure the functionality/facility will change/improve over time. Lets see…

Any comment from Steinberg? I’m sure you put that into the very next update, right??

Apart from that “missing feature” Cubase 8 Pro for me is the most complete Cubase version, ever released by Steinberg. My feature wish-list has shrunk down to some nice-to-have-but-not-essential features. Everything essential for me is in now!!
Great work Steinberg!

P.S. … er I forgot, there still is ONE essential feature tht is missing for me… but that’s the story of another thread… :slight_smile:

+1

I own but am not using 8 but am surprised this is missing.

I guess for now you could disable automation and zero the fader . . . ?

Bit of a pain.

Hugh

@HughH and dont forget to zero the panning fader to and voila, all the time-saving of the feature is gone. Also dont forget to write down all the positions of the faders and restore them after the render in place… :slight_smile:

100% agree with all of this! What the RIP seems to be is a glorified macro; it doesn’t utilize whatever internal rendering the batch export uses; it seems to just “solo, export, import track 1…solo, export, import track 2 and so on.” To me it seems as if Steinberg would just rather advertise a “cool new feature” but not actually take the time to implement it correctly. The same can be said for various tools and options in the entire program at this point(certain options only available in mix console and not available in the project page). I’m just becoming more and more baffled as they release updates. Sorry about going off on a tangent there.

I think it actually is a bit more than a simple macro. There are things you can do with RIP, that are very hard to do with the export feature. You can select multiple parts over multiple tracks, instrument tracks and audio tracks, and you can select that all plugins and settings are transferred to the new channel.
So at least it is a very flexible and eas to set up “macro”, and there is nothing more I’m asking for (apart from the missing prefader option of course :wink:

What’s missing right now with RIP is (in order of what I personally think is most important):

  • No Pre-fader option

  • No support for Mono

  • No support for Sidechain

  • A lack of a true Disable Track feature. The Disable Track co-feature has a baffling, missing ability to disable Post-Fader Inserts. So right now it’s the “Almost, but not quite Disable Track so you’ll have to manually disable other stuff anyway so what’s the point” feature.

  • Lack of ability to hide the channel after it’s been Disabled (not that this would be desired now in its current state anyway due to above issue).

The “one click” Render In-Place feature currently goes like this for me:

  1. Start by giving up sidechain and using other, less ideal approaches even before RIP.

  2. Write down or memorize pan and level position.

  3. Zero pan on channel to be RIP’d.

  4. Zero fader on channel.

  5. Perform the RIP.

  6. Change pan back on original track.

  7. Change level back on original track.

  8. Set pan on new RIP’d audio track.

  9. Set fader on new audio track.

  10. Manually power off #7 Post-Fader insert.

  11. Manually power off #8 Post-Fader insert.

  12. Disable Track.

  13. Hide track.

Twelve steps for RIP in its fullest, and for some of us, most desired, repeatable unit of work.

Thirteen steps, if your project has many #7 and #8 inserts in various states of powered on/off, because you have to write down or memorize their power states to recreate them properly when re-enabling. Channel strip notes work for this. This would be solved if Disable Track did as it should and disabled / enabled the full 8 inserts.

Having those 12 things happen with one button press on a surface controller would be such an awesome thing.

That’s coffee refill time.

That said, to help my fantasy along, I have mapped F3 on my CMC CH MIDI controller to RIP and have it labeled nicely underneath with a P-Touch labeler, “RENDER-IP” and I still use it for #4 so that I can create the illusion that it’s streamlined. :laughing:

:cry: talk about first world problems. :laughing:

So still some work to do… but when done right, Cubase can really gather some points compared to other daws…
Lets hope…

A work around for mono is to create a mono output in vst connection. Render in place follow the outbus scheme.

+1 for this idea plus add a check box option for mono.

Regards :sunglasses:

2 years later… Where is this option that yes… should be default in RIP setting !!!

+1!!!