If one needs to move a slur endpoint, it’s possible (in Engrave Mode) to hold Alt while moving that endpoint with the mouse to allow the slur to retain its shape. I usually prefer to nudge items using the keyboard and then unfortunately this method doesn’t work. I understand that this might conflict with the command including Alt to move items by a larger increment. Still, when moving an endpoint, I wonder how often one wouldn’t want the slur to retain its shape. Perhaps that behaviour could be the default and that moving endpoints independently of the other control points could be an optional setting.
Good point - I fully agree.
If only Dorico’s slur and tie adjustment points worked like Finale’s, I’d be very happy. Right now, Dorico is a no-starter for me mainly because of this.
What do you mean specifically? Genuinely curious, as Finale’s slur and tie behavior were frustrating to me.
Ties really aren’t really comparable, as Finale just treats them as objects whereas Dorico cleverly sees them as belonging to one note. One thing I’m really happy about is Dorico’s ability to tie non-contiguous notes, as with an arpeggio before a chord. That was always a nightmare in Finale.
Finale’s slurs do have more options, both for placement and shape. In Finale one can have different contour settings for short, medium, long and extra long slurs. In addition, there are settings for endpoints in single and multi voice contexts so you get this by default:
instead of this:
I’m surprised nobody has reacted to this, as there was a recent post about the above situation in which the slur contour doesn’t follow the melodic contour by default and needs adjustment. Of course it’s not always possible, especially when there are upstem notes in between, but it would be great if there were settings which could bring the endpoint closer to the note and still avoid collisions. AFAICS, this is pretty standard practice in printed editions.
to the OP, I actually like the way slurs work now. I enjoy the easy way to make fine tweaks to the shape using the key commands and tabbing between points. That said, I can definitely see the value in being able to move endpoints and retain the shape. Perhaps they can implement a secondary key command like alt+ctrl to allow you to nudge endpoints and keep the shape too with (just)alt retaining the current functionality. I really see the value in both. I find it a bit annoying when I need to use the mouse to make the larger adjustments to endpoints without upsetting the whole applecart.
Don’t you think it would be handy to have an endpoint position setting to produce the above example ‘after’ by default instead of having to tweak ‘before’?
If Dorico, I get this by default - though I might have changed the default engaving rules some time, and forgotten what I did. At least it avoids the horrible format of notes going up and a slur pointing down.
Your second example looks more like a “Sibelius-shaped default” slur to me. I wonder if your slur shapes have been imported from MusicXML.
They weren’t imported via XML. I’m still experimenting with the settings.
What do you have set as your default vertical offset from the end of the stem? Looks like 1½ spaces. The factory default is ½ space.
It’s actually 1 1/4 spaces.
I thought I had changed something, but I had forgotten what I was!
I guess I’m so used to tweaking slurs manually (in Dorico and previously Sibelius) that I’m not bothered that Dorico doesn’t always get it right.
The team have previously stated they’re planning to come back to slurs in future - certain things haven’t been attended to yet. The one that comes to mind is slurs over System breaks, which always need manual work.
Slurs are almost always great out of the box. If there’s improvement to be made, it’s miniscule.
Here’s an example, although in this case, I’m not sure there’s a better “automatic” solution. I ended up dragging the start point above the staff.
Agreed, Dorico’s slurs are better than most out of the box, especially due to the excellent collision avoidance. A higher default offset for the vertical endpoint of slurs from the end of the stem would generally produce better results. We shouldn’t get used to seeing this:
And Leo’s right, too: system breaks need work but Daniel’s already remarked on this being on their to do list. Nice example, Dan! It does bring up another need: more space between accidentals and rolls. I have the space before accidentals set quite low, as well, which produces good note spacing but also arpeggios which are too close to them.
Of course! When I said “I like the way slurs work now” I was only referring to the current editing methods, not necessarily the default renders. In fact, I actually dislike some of the defaults I’ve gotten from Dorico and have attempted, from time to time, to change default settings but I still haven’t found my happy place yet. I totally agree with the examples above that the “after” version is much better.