Roemer-style oversized/vertically offset time signatures

I’m trying to set up my time signatures to look like those suggested by Clinton Roemer in “The Art of Music Copying”, or Darcy James Argue in “Music Preparation Fundamentals for Jazz Composers & Arrangers”, where both the denominator and numerator are 3 spaces tall, but instead of being centred on the staff, are offset vertically, such that the denominator sits between the 1st and 4th lines of the staff, and the numerator sits on the 4th line and extends two spaces above the staff (with or without the following “arc” described by Roemer).

Here are the relevant illustrative exerpts: Roemer, and Argue.


I can use the “Show once per bracket” Layout Option coupled with the “Scale factor for time signtatures centred on brackets and braces” Engraving Option to get the right heights, but I can’t seem to do anything to displace them vertically.

I’ve tried using the “Vertical alignment relative to bracket” Engraving option, which at present only allows for Top/Middle alignment, and it seemed to have absolutely no effect for single staff layouts. If a “Bottom alignment” option, were present and wired up properly, I’d at least be able to make my part layouts match Roemer/Argue.

I’ve also tried mucking around with time signature control characters in the “Edit Music Symbols” dialog, and either I haven’t figured out how to use them properly, they’re not meant to be used that way, or Dorico is ignoring them resulting in no visible effect.


Regarding Roemer’s “arc”:

I personally only ever use them with common and cut time signatures in handwritten fonts. This is trivial to accomplish in the “Edit Music Symbols” dialog as the time signature is formed by a single character.

However, it’s considerably harder, if not impossible, to achieve for “regular” time signatures due to them being composed of multiple characters. I reckon this would need to be handled with properties and layout/engraving options.

Is this what you’re looking for?

Image

  1. Go to Library > Engraving Options > Time Signatures > Gaps > Vertical Gaps and set the Gap between numerator and denominator for time signatures on every staff to -2 spaces.
  2. Go to Library > Music Symbols, search for Time signature 4, delete the existing glyph, add a space character (U+20) followed by the glyph timesig4 (U+E084), set the Y-offset of the digit glyph to 17.50 and the Y-scale to 150.00, and click OK.
  3. Repeat step 2 for every time signature digit you plan to use.
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This works reasonably well for single-digit numerators over a “4” denominator, but I can’t get it to work well with double-digit numerators, or denominators other than “4”.

Eg: 12/8 and 12/4 using the GoldenAge font.

I’ve tried messing around with the attachment points, and have tried using a Zero-Width Space (U+200B) rather than a regular space,but to no avail.

I should say, that the first digit of the numerator always seems to be at the correct desired baseline height (sitting on the 4th line), and if it’s the only digit, appears in the correct horizontal position relative to the denominator (centred above it).

It’s the other digits I seem to be having issues with.

Subsequent numerator digits are too low (sitting half a space below the 4th line), and only the 1st digit is centred above the 1st digit of the denominator.

The denominators are all over the place:

  • “7” fits perfectly between the 1st and 4th lines
  • “6” protrudes below the 1st line by about 1/4 of a space
  • “1” though “5” and “9” protrude by 1/2 a space
  • “8” protrudes by almost a whole space

The amount of protusion seems to also be reflected in how much space there is between the 4th line and the top of each glyph.

Double-digit denominators make even less sense. Here’s 4/16.

The Golden Age font certainly has its peculiarities. Here is what happens when the digits 1 through 9 are used as the denominator of time signatures with no changes in their appearance from the factory defaults:

Note that 7 comes closest to staying between the bottom and middle lines, while 8 is well below the other digits. However, look what happens when the Time signature 8 glyph is displayed in the Edit Music Symbol dialog:

Apparently, Dorico displays digits in the denominator by aligning the top of the glyph’s bounding box with the middle line. However, the bounding box for the digit 8 extends well above the top of the printable character, and that is why the digit 8 is below the others.

So the issue would require either a change in how Dorico draws the glyphs, or a change in the bounding boxes for the GoldenAge font? Presumably, the latter would be easier.

@benwiggy any thoughts?

I didn’t change any of the glyphs’ positions from the original Type 1 font; but it may be a bug in the JSON values.
I’ll have a look at it.

I mean, as a handwriting font, it’s supposed to look a little bit irregular… :rofl:

If the Y-scale of the glyphs for the time signature digits is set to a value other than 100, then Dorico incorrectly displays time signatures containing a numerator or denominator with more than one digit. Here is what happens when the Y-scale of the Bravura glyphs is set to 150 for the time signatures 12/8 and 4/16:

Image1

Instead of changing the Y-scale of the glyphs, one time signature per bracket could be chosen in the layout options and the scale factor for one staff could be set to 1 1/2 in the engraving options:

Image2

This works if each system does not have a bracket spanning more than one staff. If a system does have a bracket spanning more than one staff, there is no longer a time signature on each staff. I tried to give each staff inside the bracket an independent time signature, but the scale factor for these staves reverted to 1.

If Dorico can display time signatures containing a numerator or denominator with more than one digit correctly when one time signature per bracket is chosen, it would be useful to have an option to change the scale factor when a time signature on every staff is chosen.

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All the numbers were much bigger than 2 spaces, and I’ve optimized some of the curves. Not sure why the bounding box was so big; but it seems fine now (with no change to the JSON values).

I’ll let you know when the new version is available.

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Here’s a revised version of GoldenAge.

Do let me know if there’s anything not quite right.

You’ll have to delete the old version, which may need admin rights. Don’t forget the JSON file.

Golden Age 1.4.zip (108.2 KB)

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Thanks for this.

I’ve got two existing .json files:

  • C:\Program Files\Common Files\SMuFL\Fonts\Golden Age\Golden Age.json
  • C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Dorico5\fonts\metadata\goldenage_metadata.json

Should both be replaced with the new Golden Age.json, or just the Common Files one as mentioned in the README?

Oh.

I would expect the first one to be the relevant one. I’m not sure what the second one is.

I can’t see it described in the spec:

https://w3c.github.io/smufl/latest/specification/font-metadata-locations.html

If I just replace the Common one, Dorico can’t “see” the font (even after a full system reboot), but replaceing the Steinberg one (and renaming accordingly) does the trick.

I haven’t tested completely removing the Steinberg one, so can’t say whether it overrides the Common one, or whether Dorico is ignoring it entirely.