Roli & Halion

Virtual instruments HALion
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#14

What do you mean it doesn’t work with bitwig? When you hit force mpe mode on a plugin in bitwig it rotates the midi channels of the clips starting with channel 2. So effectively it splits the notes per channel (for overlapping notes anyways). The bitwig method doesn’t store the midi channel that was originally played with each note but rotates the channels based on how many notes overlap, which has its own issues but works mostly.

Ok, interesting, I didn’t what bitwig was doing with “force mpe”. It’s pretty clear when I use contact.
From what I read :
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=259&t=451340&p=6756206&hilit=MPE+note+channel#p6756206
It looks to me that “Voice note channel” does not work well in Bitwig. But it does really well with mainstage of logic for instance.
I experience the same thing with U-He stuff for instance.

I did demo it for a while and Halion did pitch each note separately even without forcing mpe, which was cool, but aftertouch didn’t work and I didn’t figure out how to modulate with cc74. After my demo expired I realized that Halion aftertouch is channel aftertouch and I must have had the instruments in channel 1 (if that’s the default?). Can you tell me how you use cc74 as a modulator though?

I just assign CC74 and that’s it.

I will ask for another demo period but I had a frustrating experience trying to contact support and eventually gave up before. Also I am going to need to switch computers soon and might be a month or more without a computer at all due to traveling. So I might not demo again for a while.

Yes, ask support, it took me 2-3 days to have an answer and my demo but I was able to try it before buying it. Explaining why you need to try it again, they will help you with this.

#15

Haha, I asked how to assign cc74 and you said just assign cc74! But thats what I don’t know how to do! I didn’t see it as a modulator source in the mid matrix so I must be missing something. Don’t have my demo back yet. Just want to make sure you can use a cc as a modulator (as opposed to midi learning a parameter which is different.

#16

Midi controller -> CC74 in the modulators matrix works.

#17

So I took your advice and tried contacting support to ask for another demo period. They replied saying that it was impossible to give more demo time. I said that is weird because I’ve been told by others that they’ve received another demo, so why couldn’t I? They never answered me after that. So then I brought it up with Mattias in a thread on KVR. He said the same thing. Impossible to get more than 30 days demo. I said I just need to check a few things and can’t purchase until I’ve confirmed some things. But no response. I even posted a thread about it in the presales forum here. No response to that either. Nobody will answer why they have granted a second demo to some people and not others.

It seems Steinberg support and staff just don’t care about making a sale. The inconsistency is troublesome as well. Who did you email with your request? Maybe different departments give different answers?

#18

The roli seaboard works all fine with Halion 6 !!

I experimented with it for some time now, working on a 5dim instrument, with macro and luma code, and created about some 30 new sounds with ALL the 5 dimensions.
Halion offers you to do it all, although you have to learn some tweaking parameters, like offsets in the matrix to have the cc74, and after touch working the way you want it to :wink:

I might do a video soon on me creating a sound from scratch, for my library with the roli, but couldn’t find the time yet. If I do, I’ll post the link to it here.

One thing important is to set the MPE on off in the Roli dashboard, and multi channel to on (1-16), pitch to 24. If not cc74 will not work properly (touches on the upper parts of the keys will not soud like those on the lower parts)

In short… Halion and Roli work very well. Of course, direct integrated mpe support would be welcome (no need to create the 16 instances and mpe protocol supported) but maybe in a future upgrade? :wink:

LuLu

#19

It’s truth that they cannot give you more time but for me, they manage to give another code and it gave me a 25 hours demo (it 25 hours of usage). I think it unlock all steinberg product but I am not sure, I haven’t try other products.

Well, I have been told by «steinberg@yamaha.ca»
«We cannot extend the trial period for a long set of time but I can get you 25 hours of test time with this code to be used in the elicenser control center».

#20

Thanks for that quote and email address. Perhaps they will give me a different answer.

Another question I have. Is it possible to load the lua script at a level above the program (can’t remember what it’s called, combi maybe) and be able to change presets while still have the lua script active? And if so, when you change an entire program, do the copies change as well? OR do you have to delete them all and put the script there again. Can you change combis with the lua script active and does it copy the combis?

Really wish I could try all this myself.

thanks

#21

Lua script is on a program level so, as far of I know, can’t be put in a higher level.
All changes made to a program, are immediately for all the instances (16 for the roli).
For the combis, I do’t know, never worked with it so far.

#22

Thanks for the answer above. I’m still uncertain though whether you can change presets/programs and keep the lua script loaded. When you load a new program does it wipe out the script and therefor you have to paste it again n every time for a new presets? I thought someone said you could change a program and it would do the same for all 15 copies. Or maybe that was just for waveforms and samples.

Sorry for all the questions. I sent a request for the additional 25 hours demo time to the address given above and they flat out said no they can’t do that. So I guess they just were having friendly day when you asked. It’s really annoying to have to ask so many questions and not just be able to try it myself.

#23

Well, I KNOW it works, as I’m working with Halion/Halion Sonic+SE/Padshop/Retrologue in combination with the Roli Seaboard for some time now.

If using the lua script with Halion, and you have 16 instances of the program, you only click on the ‘reload’ button in the interface and it is immediately active for all the loaded instances!! The modified script will of course also be loaded automatically with other programs that use the same script, as it is stored on your disk.

The 16 instances of your program, you ONLY need if you’re using Halion (or Sonic or SE) as a Standalone instrument in combination with the Roli. When using it inside Cubase (or other DAW that uses note expression) You better use only 1 instance of the program, but need to set the midi or instrument track to transform the incoming midi controller data to note expression data, and check the rotate midi channels button! This way you can use MPE instruments like the Roli or Lins etc… with all VST3 instruments that support note expression! (although not always all dimensions, like the ‘lift’ modifier [note off] is not presented as a modifier in retrologue or padshop?!?)

As I said before, I’m actually thinking of doing a video on all the tips and tricks I discovered so far in using the Seaboard with Halion and Cubase in general.

Stay tuned… :wink:

#24

Sorry I couldn’t follow any of this. I don’t use cubase though, I use Bitwig. So none of those track settings are there. There’s no note expression in bitwig, only the mpe expression. So no transforming anything.

I’d have to use the script in bitwig though since although the pitch can be bent per note, the modulations don’t seem to respond. So what I’m trying to understand now is can I load the Lua script and then change presets, while keeping no tue Lua script loaded? Or do you have to load the script again every time you change a preset (or program I guess as it’s called).
Thanks.

#25

The lua script is loaded automatically within the program (or sound or patch, whatever you like to call it) It uses a lua script block with a reference to the script file stored on your disk. So you can modify whatever you like in a sound or the script, and that will become active right away! When properly saved, all sounds that uses the same script, will have the latest script version automatically loaded and ready to go.

I hope this will help you?

LuLu

#26

Cool, thanks. So it sounds like I can browse through the factory library and not have to load the script every time right? It sounds like that’s what you’re saying but then the last part about patches that use the script threw me off. But hopefully you are effectively saying that you don’t have to load the script every time you change patches, it will stay there. Yes?

Good news is that I found a way to demo again by deleting my elicenser stuff and using a different email to download a one month demo. Now i need to figure out how to load the script.

I’ve already found something strange though. I changed the midi channel to A2 on a program, which should respond to mpe data in bitwig (which sends channels 2-16) but it did not respond. It only responds when set to channel A1, even while set to “force mpe” which makes the device only listen to channels 2-16. Very weird. Makes no sense.

#27

That’s not exactly what I said. A script is loaded with the program you load into a slot, if there was a script saved within it in the first place!!
A script is a block IN your program that has a reference to a script file on your disk! A program saved without a script block, will NOT load a script!!
Also browsing through the library doesn’t load a script, you must load the program into a slot in Halion, before it will become active!

Sorry, I don’t know much about bitwig, as I don’t use it much, so I’m not a specialist here, but you must use Halion as a ‘multi-timbral’ instrument! That means that you must use multiple instances (16 for 16 polyphony) of a program in the slotrack. Just one instance set to midi channel A2 doesn’t do it!
Halion is NOT a MPE capable synth, but you can make it work using OR note-expression (Bitwig use also note-expression, but a.f.o.i.k., only for it’s own synth’s, so you can’t go that way) OR by using Halion as a Multi-timbral instrument.


Test it, try it and have fun with this great synth :wink:

#28

Here is a quick video of me using the Roli Seaboard Rise with Halion 6 Standalone as a multi-timbral instrument!

https://youtu.be/3mLuYOCaNhs

Enjoy.

#29

Hey, I really appreciate your answers. Ok so my fear was correct. Every time you load a new preset from the factory, you have to load the script again to use mpe.

As far as your comment about needing multiple instances as a multi-timbral instrument, yes I know that, however the first note sent by bitwig in mpe mode is always to channel 2, so it should receive the first note if set to A2 right? I was testing to make sure that the first note was received, which it wasn’t. So something very weird is going on here. A midi monitor plugin confirms that midi data is being received on channel 2 before halion, but halion only receives midi when set to A1. So strange, because all plugins (at least in VST2) will not receive midi when in mpe mode if the channel is set to channel 1 (since it sends starting with channel 2). I’ll try to ask bitwig, who knows what’s happening.

#30

Thank you for both your videos on the ROLI Seaboard RISE and Cubase.

I’ve been interested in these kind of controllers for years, like the Hakkum Continuum and the Madrona Labs Soundplane. But I saw Nick Batt’s walkthrough of the ROLI Blocks keyboard controller and clearly saw into the potential expressiveness that you can get from one of the ROLI keyboards.

ROLI doesn’t list Cubase or Nuendo as being ROLI compatible. The listing is absent. Good to see Lulu_M through your videos that it is possible. Hope that Steinberg has some keen ROLI advocates in the Marketing and Development department. ROLI promotes Logic, Abelton Live and Bitwig as ROLI compatible. Nick Batt showed it working really well with Reaper in his recent Sonic Labs video shown through the link below. If people are interested in the Seaboard but aren’t quite convinced I would recommend watching the video…

https://youtu.be/jIplkkj4C-4

#31

Thank you si much for kind words and sharing, Andrew, much appreciated.
Yes the Roli Seaboard Rise is a great production tool and such a joy to play! It works very well within Cubase, once knowing how to set it up right.

Unfortunately there are still some limitations, as the ±12 pitch max pitch bed within Note-Expression (although their proper VST allow ±24) in contrast with the ±48 pitch bend for MPE, not mentioning the difficulties in playing Standalone Halion versions, but maybe Steinberg will see interest in proper support for these MPE controllers, as to MHO they should.

LuLu M

#32

Unfortunately this multi instance script can not be used in bitwig since bitwig automatically uses vst note expression instead of mpe when it detects a vst3 so it does not send multi channel data. And Halion does even have note expression modulators that bitwig uses so that’s useless. Only per voice bend bend works. Halion doesn’t even have polyphonic pressure. So bitwig and Halion is not a great combo for mpe and roli type stuff. Steinberg support has been horrendous as well and they don’t even know what im talking about when asking about modulation sources for the vst3 spec.

#33

Dimension V is free a Halion library (H6/Sonic and SE) that is tailored for MPE instruments, like the Roli Seaboard line.

Although it’s free to use the sound library in your creative work, non commercially as well as commercially, it’ll not be allowed to commercialise this library as it is, nor commercially exploit the individual programs that it contains!

You can find the download link in the description of the video: https://youtu.be/_lNjJ7WcjOs

I hope you’ll enjoy!

Happy Xmas :wink:


LuLu M