Hi,
is there any reason why chords are different in the chord track and the score editor ?
see ex. below, but I came across few others. Notably the chord in bar 15 is really a 7th chord, not Bm(b5).
Michel
Looks like the chord is incorrectly displayed in both the key editor and the score if the chord is supposed to be comprised of B, D, F and Ab. I would expect it to be written as Bo7 (alternatively Bdim7). That being said, I interpret both Bo and Bm(b5) as the same chord.
This is something I reported not too long ago. I am optimistic some solutions will be released
The reason is that Dorico (which is the same codebase as the scoring engine) has a very sophisticated chord model, and the identity and styling of the chord can be controlled separately, eg see
and there are dozens of options for fine control of presentation, eg
The Cubase chord model is very different and I donāt think has the same separation of identity and presentation. In the future we hope to add more of these options into the scoring engine and improve the link between the Cubase and score engine chord models
Thanks for your reply, @PaulWalmsley , but I bought Cubase, not Dorico (and Iām on Sibelius actually).
itās not about Bo, Bo7 or Bdim7, but about the fact that the chord track and the score editor show different chords.
And Bo7 (or Bo) is just not the same as Bm(b5). The Bo7 (or Bo) means definitely the 7th is an Ab, the latter leaves it open, it could be an A, Ab or even A#! As it is I canāt get the score editor to show the correct chord.
And there are other situations with other chords where that happens too.
Michel
Bo is not the same as Bo7, Bo is a diminished triad on B containing the notes B D and F. So yes it is the same thing as Bm(b5) and distinct from Bo7. It is more common in classical or pop nomenclature since unembellished triads are not really a thing in jazz.
In your example above, the chord track and score editor show the same chords all the time, but using two different systems.
Hi @mducharme , not sure about that, but I am sure that in the score the chord on bar 15 is not Bmb5. It should read Bo7 if you want, but it doesnāt, and I canāt get it right. Thatās my point.
Michel
OK, yes, I saw this of course, that your chord symbol didnāt exactly match the notes you entered, but I wasnāt sure if it was on purpose. But, arenāt those getting set by the chord symbols you have set in the Cubase key editor? And canāt you then simply change the second chord in the key editor to Bo7 to reflect that it has a seventh?
I experimented again with the key editor, and funnily ā¦ I got it right.
to make it show Bo7 I had to enter the chord as B dim j7. Thatās strange since to me j7 means major 7th, and is not in Bo7. Entering B dim 7 turns it into a half-dim chord strangely.
the score editor still shows Bdim7, but I can live with that.
thanks for the tip, though itās a mystery to me how this system worksā¦
Michel
Youāre right. I donāt normally use the chord symbols in Cubase. I just fired up Cubase 14 (previous version) and I have to do the same thing to make a Bdim7 appear. Thatās really confusing. It seems like a problem in how Cubase represents the chord internally rather than having to do with the score editor.
How to get a dim7 chordā¦.
It sounds like an excellent opportunity to revamp the whole chord system in Cubase. There are several aspects of it that are both questionable and unpredictable.
Yeah, as I said, the problem with this particular thing seems to be on the Cubase key editor chord track side and nothing to do with the Score Editor or Dorico.
In the chord editor popup when I double click on the chord symbol you can see the illogical j7 I had to add to get the chord showing as Bdim7:
Even more confusing is once you have made this selection (which does work), the way it shows up in the āinfoā bar at the top makes it look like it is a regular major triad, and there are also two ādimās in the list for some reason (maybe the second should be dim7?):
I might be doing something wrong as someone who has never used the Chord symbols functionality in Cubase, but it is confusing and not what i would expect to see.
And those screenshots are from Cubase 14 but it seems to be the same in 15.
There are a handful of other odd behaviors in the Cubase chord system. Itās been like this forever. And donāt get me started on the āj7ā nomenclature. Where does that come from!?
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It would be awesome to make the general chord display be the same both on the chord track and in the score editor. It is the same program after all and as a customer I donāt care if there is a different engine running one module. I simply donāt care. I care only for the results.
There are several documented cases in this forum where the chords on the chord track do not match the usersā expectation. Additionally several people would like to see support for power chords (I know, technically not chords, but they are used in music for real.)
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I agree, but I suspect it isnāt all that easy to do. Hopefully in the future we might see something.
well, the chord-analyser in C13 was great, this is a step backward. maybe and hopefully itāll get betterā¦.
My best guess: j7 is possibly just a bad/misleading name for āno, not that quality of seventh, the other quality of seventhā.
There usually arenāt more than two forms of seventh used with a given type of triad - ex. with a major triad you might have a minor seventh or a major seventh but not a diminished seventh (that would be a misspelled sixth). With a minor triad you might have a major seventh or a minor seventh but not a diminished one (otherwise again an added sixth misspelled). But with a diminished triad you can have either a minor seventh or a diminished seventh, but a major seventh wouldnāt make sense. In each case therefore there are two possible sevenths. So they might have used that to get at āthe other seventhā. In which case, j7 isnāt a very good name for it.
I believe that was my point exactly. There is plenty of real estate in the Chord Editor for it to be labeled āmaj7ā or āā³7ā even. It should be a trivial fix.
itās quite a common name, I come across it regularly in chord progressions. I suppose ājā is shorthand for āmajā